SARAH GLOVER: HELLO. I’M SARAH GLOVER, WHYY’S VICE PRESIDENT OF NEWS AND CIVIC DIALOGUE. WHYY NEWS IS COMMITTED TO REPORTING ON SOLUTIONS TO PHILADELPHIA’S GUN VIOLENCE CRISIS. THIS PODCAST DIGS INTO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT STOP AND FRISK, GUN VIOLENCE, AND PUBLIC SAFETY IN THE CITY OF BROTHERLY LOVE. JOIN US AS WE TAKE AN IN DEPTH LOOK AT HOW WE GOT HERE. THIS IS A CONVERSATION PHILLY NEEDS TO HAVE.
SAMMY: HEADS UP: THIS EPISODE CONTAINS DESCRIPTIONS OF DRUG USE, POLICE BRUTALITY, AND MURDER.
MUSIC
YVONNE: DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY SOME POLICE PREDOMINANTLY STOP BLACK MEN? SGT. MICHAEL SPICER OF THE PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT, EXPLAINS WHY
Sgt. Michael Spicer: The predominant persons that are doing shootings and violence are young Black males. So whereas we don’t target seventy year old Asian females for a reason, they’re of no interest to us to, to curb violence. Right. So the game, the card gets played against us that we’re targeting a certain race or color or age whereas we are, in all actuality we are because they’re the persons that are responsible for the violence. So again, it’s that it’s a catch-22 on our end. Like, we’re damned if we do them or damned if we don’t.
YVONNE: ACCORDING TO THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA’S RECENT 100 SHOOTING REVIEW COMMITTEE REPORT, SINCE 2015, 80 PERCENT OF SHOOTING VICTIMS AND 79 PERCENT OF ARRESTEES HAVE BEEN BLACK MEN.
Spicer: We get emails every day and the pictures that are the wanted person, pictures of the actual crime taking place. And again, it’s dominated by young Black males.
YVONNE: WHEN POLICE STOP SUSPICIOUS INDIVIDUALS, SGT. SPICER DOESN’T CONSIDER THAT STOP AND FRISK. ACTUALLY, HE THINKS STOP AND FRISK IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, WHICH IT IS, IF USED IN A RACIALLY BIASED WAY.
Spicer: Stop and frisk means that to me that it’s an open market on whoever I want to get out and grab and throw on a wall. To me, that’s unconstitutional all the way across the board.
YVONNE: SOME CITY LEADERS HAVE ADVOCATED FOR ENFORCING STOP AND FRISK MORE BROADLY, AND SGT. SPICER BELIEVES IT IS GOOD POLICING TO STOP PEOPLE WHO COPS SUSPECT ARE COMMITTING CRIMES.
Spicer: So to us, we’re not just grabbing people because of their skin color or because of their clothing description. We stop people where we think it would help us if we were to be able to affect the laws that are on the books.
YVONNE: AND IF THEY HAPPEN TO BLACK MEN, SO BE IT.
I’M YVONNE LATTY, THE DIRECTOR OF TEMPLE UNIVERSITY, LOGAN CENTER FOR URBAN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.
SAMMY: AND I’M SAMMY CAIOLA, THE GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION REPORTER AT WHYY.
YVONNE: AND THIS IS A STOP AND FRISK: REVISIT OR RESIST, A PODCAST THAT LOOKS AT THE PUSH TO VISIBLY ENFORCE A CONTROVERSIAL POLICING METHOD BY A CITY WHOSE BACK IS UP AGAINST THE WALL. THIS IS EPISODE 3: THE POLICE.
Lt.: So, I mean, I don’t need to tell you, but obviously. Just anything can happen at any time. So should you guys end up in an emergency situation just, you know, be guided by what the sergeant says.
Sammy: We will follow instructions. We can do that.
SAMMY: YVONNE AND I ARE AT THE 24TH DISTRICT FOR A RIDE-ALONG WITH SGT. MICHAEL SPICER. THE 24TH IS A HOTSPOT FOR GUN VIOLENCE.
BY EARLY NOVEMBER 2022, THERE HAD BEEN 235 SHOOTINGS AND 43 MURDERS IN THIS DISTRICT. THAT’S MORE THAN ANY OTHER PHILLY POLICE DISTRICT.
POLICE HAVE MADE ABOUT 214,000 STOPS HERE SINCE 2014 – THAT’S ABOUT 73 STOPS PER DAY ACCORDING TO POLICE DATA.
Spicer: Hi. How are you?
Sammy: Yeah. Thanks for having us today. I’m Sammy.
Spicer: My pleasure. Mike.
Yvonne: I’m Yvonne.
Spicer: Hi Yvonne. Nice to meet you.
SAMMY: AFTER PUTTING ON OUR POLICE ISSUED BULLET PROOF VESTS…
Yvonne: Oh, my God, it’s heavy. Whew!
Sammy: It’s a little heavy.
Lt.: Yes. I think this one’s a little lighter.
Sammy: Mine’s lighter, yeah.
Yvonne: I think you got good protection. That’s good.
SAMMY: WE CLIMB INTO SGT. MICHAEL SPICER’S POLICE SUV.
Spicer: You let me know when you ladies are ready.
Yvonne: I’m ready. Are you ready?
Spicer: What are we looking for, the nickel tour or the dollar tour? And when I ask that, I mean, do you want to go see what really goes on out there, or do you want to cruise the perimeter?
Yvonne: I want to see what goes on out there.
MUSIC
SAMMY: AND WE’RE OFF ON A RIDE THROUGH THE EAST DIVISION, WHICH COVERS THREE DISTRICTS: THE 24th, 25th, AND 26th. THAT’S KENSINGTON, NORTH PHILADELPHIA JUNIATA PARK AND FISHTOWN.
BUT FOR THIS RIDE-ALONG, OUR FOCUS IS THE 24TH DISTRICT, SPECIFICALLY KENSINGTON AND ALLEGHENY AND THE SURROUNDING BLOCKS, WHICH ARE KNOWN FOR OPEN AIR DRUG DEALING, PEOPLE LIVING WITH DRUG ADDICTION, AND HIGH HOMICIDE RATES…
AND TO BE CLEAR SGT. SPICER’S VIEWS ARE HIS OWN. HE DOES NOT REPRESENT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
Spicer: You’re in my car. I’m taking you for a tour of the place that I work every day, six or seven days a week.
YVONNE: BUT BEFORE WE GET TO DEEP INTO THIS RIDE-ALONG, THERE”S SOMETHING YOU SHOULD KNOW… OUR GUIDE, SGT. SPICER, WAS ONE OF SIX OFFICERS ACQUITTED FOR BEATING UP DRUG DEALERS, STEALING THEIR MONEY, AND THEN FILING FALSE POLICE REPORTS TO COVER IT UP.
HE WAS CHARGED IN 2012, ACQUITTED IN 2015, AND THEN PROMOTED TO SERGEANT THAT SAME YEAR.
SAMMY: PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER DANIELLE OUTLAW OPTED NOT TO BE INTERVIEWED FOR THIS EPISODE.
NOW LET’S GET BACK TO THE RIDE-ALONG, AS THE POLICE RADIO BLARES NON-STOP, SGT. SPICER, WHO HAS CLOSE CROPPED MILITARY STYLE BLOND HAIR, AND BLACK FRAME GLASSES, DRIVES WITH EASE THROUGH KENSINGTON. HE IS AN INTIMIDATING MAN, BIG, BURLY, CONFIDENT.
Spicer: All right, approaching that corner where there were supposedly six males selling narcotics, fighting on the highway. This is where they’re giving it out for right here. So I don’t want you to get out. I don’t want you to say anything or do anything. I’m going to take care of this one. I see that. And of course, they’re not here.
Oh, there they are. Stay in the car.
DOOR SLAM
MUSIC
SAMMY: WE DRIVE PAST ROWHOMES, MOM AND POP STORES… THIS NEIGHBORHOOD LOST MOST OF ITS WORKING CLASS POPULATION TO THE SUBURBS WHEN FACTORIES LEFT THE AREA IN THE 1940’s. THE MEDIAN PER PERSON INCOME IS ROUGHLY $17,000 A YEAR. 40 PERCENT OF RESIDENTS LIVE IN POVERTY ACCORDING TO THE MOST RECENT CENSUS DATA.
THE AREA IS 50% LATINO, 30% WHITE AND 13% BLACK. THIS COMMUNITY IS PROUD AND ORGANIZED, BUT DESPITE ALL THEIR EFFORTS, THEY ARE PLAGUED BY AN OPIOID AND HEROIN CRISIS THAT THRIVES UNDER THE EL. AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS SAY THE MOSTLY WHITE HOMELESS PEOPLE LIVING WITH ADDICTION ARE MAINLY COMING FROM THE SUBURBS.
Spicer: The biggest problem in the 24th District is our drug problem, that is coupled with our unsheltered, homeless, drug addicted population, which is very large.
YVONNE: AS WE TURN ON KENSINGTON AVENUE I SEE THEM.
Spicer: You see, she still has the tie off in her hand, that blue strap. You see them all bent over, sleeping, you see that?
YVONNE: PEOPLE IN FILTHY CLOTHES, RAIL THIN, SORES ON THEIR FACES, STAGGERING DOWN THE STREET. I SEE A YOUNG WOMAN PLACING A NEEDLE INTO HER NECK, A GROUP NODDING OUT NEAR A ROW OF DIRTY BLUE TENTS. PEOPLE ARE SITTING ON SIDEWALKS IN FRONT OF SHUTTERED BUSINESSES. EVERYWHERE I LOOK I SEE NEEDLES AND TOO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, MOSTLY WHITE, LOST IN THIS MAZE.
THERE ARE NO POLICE CARS IN SIGHT, OR OFFICERS WALKING A BEAT, NO STOPS, NO FRISKS, NO ATTEMPTS TO CURB THIS SCENE THAT PLAYS OUT EVERY DAY UNDER THE EL IN KENSINGTON. BUT SGT. SPICER SAYS THEY’RE WORKING ON IT.
Spicer: We are taking a little more stance as far as the open air stuff of utilizing the drugs, open air. But there’s not a lot we can do with that. And coupled with the factor of once we stop someone or see someone using drugs, they automatically become a hospital case. We have to get them medical attention first.
YVONNE: FOR KENSINGTON RESIDENT, JACK BROWN, LIVING AMONG THIS IS JUST VERY HARD.
Jack Brown: So there’s a lot of drug activity going on. You have the violence that comes along with the drug activity. You have the open use of drugs that goes along with all of that. You have basically occupations of local neighborhood parks, including Hissey Playground, Hope Park and McPherson Square. These individuals are given a free rein to basically occupy these parks, do drugs, throw trash out on the ground and put their tents on the sidewalk, put their tents in the park, occupy stretches of sidewalk that kids have to use to go to school. And nothing is done. Nothing.
YVONNE: THE FORCE IS DOWN ROUGHLY 1300 OFFICERS. SGT. SPICER SAYS THE SHORTAGE OF POLICE MAKES IT HARD TO DEAL WITH THE VIOLENCE AND QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES THE RESIDENTS FACE.
Spicer: We’re very strapped, manpower wise. And the more the more violence that we incur, the more we become more strapped. Because one crime scene virtually can put us almost out of commission.
SAMMY: AND HE SAYS. IT IS VERY EASY TO SPOT THE DEALERS.
Spicer: There is a lot of open air drug sales here. And when I say that, I mean like there’s a lot of groups, individual groups that all sell different products and even the same product sometimes right here. So it’s very accessible.
Spicer: You’ll see this whole strip here, both sides. And then they sell on all these little blocks.
They’re drug dealers, not drug users.
Yvonne: And they dress like that in black and white. Is that the look?
Spicer: All the time. That’s what we would call uniform number one.
YVONNE: HE CRUISES PAST A CORNER AND POINTS TO GROUP OF YOUNG BLACK MEN DRESSED IN BLACK AND WHITE. AT LEAST ONE IS STRADDLING A MOPED OR DIRT BIKE. AND THEY STARE AT OUR POLICE SUV, THEY DON’T FLINCH, OR MOVE. THEY ARE UNAFRAID. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE DARING SGT. SPICER TO STOP THEM. HE DOESN’T. WE CRUISE ON AND HE CONTINUES HIS NARRATION.
Spicer: And there are separate drug corners on every one of those little blocks. Some of the blocks, they even have multiple drug corners. So the east end will have a block, a drug corner, then the middle will have one, and then the west side will have one, all on one square block, literally.
YVONNE: BUT ALTHOUGH THE DEALERS ARE IN FULL VIEW, NOT HIDING THEIR BUSINESS, THERE IS NO STOP AND FRISK AT LEAST ON THIS AVENUE.
Spicer: If we truly enacted that, we’d be able to jump out there because it’s a known drug corner, and we’d be able to put everybody on the wall and frisk them. We don’t do that. But now it’s come full circle the other way.
YVONNE: SGT. SPICER SAYS THEY JUST CAN’T STOP THEM OR FRISK THEM FOR STANDING THERE.
Spicer: We can’t stop them from standing there. We can’t use words like loitering anymore. It won’t even take it in our computer system if we type in loitering in the paperwork that we fill out when we stop someone or have contact with them. It won’t accept it. So we need more than just them standing on the corner. We can’t just roll up and stop them just based on them standing on that corner.
AD: SUPPORTING WHYY, PENN MEDICINE’S TRANSPLANT INSTITUTE. PERFORMING KIDNEY, LIVER, HEART, LUNG, AND PANCREAS TRANSPLANTS FOR MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS. LEARN MORE AT PENNMEDICINE.ORG/TRANSPLANT OR 800-789-PENN.
MUSIC
SAMMY: IN MOST PHILADELPHIA POLICE DISTRICTS, OFFICERS CAN LEGALLY STOP SOMEONE FOR MINOR OFFENSES LIKE LOITERING OR DRINKING IN PUBLIC. BUT IN THE 24TH AND A FEW OTHER DISTRICTS, THEY CAN ONLY MAKE A VERBAL REQUEST THAT THE PERSON MOVE ALONG.
THAT CHANGE IS PART OF A PILOT PROGRAM THAT EXPANDED THIS YEAR. IT WAS PART OF THE BAILEY AGREEMENT, WHICH CAME OUT OF A 2010 CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT ABOUT STOP AND FRISK IN PHILLY.
SGT SPICER DRIVES US BY MCPHERSON PARK, WHICH HE CALLS NEEDLE PARK. IT’S NOT FAR FROM THE LOCAL FREE LIBRARY, AND IT’S A SITE OF DESPAIR.
Spicer: They need treatment. They come here a lot with the giving out food and now supplies and clothing and things going again. And again, they need it, but it also enables them to stay out here longer. You know what I’m saying? Like, it’s a double edged sword. I’m not denying them that they need help.
SAMMY: WE SEE A WOMAN SMOKING CRACK. BUT THERE IS NO ATTEMPT TO STOP HER OR CALL THIS IN. IT’S SIMPLY OUT OF CONTROL.
Spicer: She’s smoking crack. You see the glass tube in her mouth that she was lighting? That’s crack. So the whole park, and even though we have assigned people there, again, there’s the drug usage is so out of control. Arresting her would be a big burden on the system on our end.
SAMMY; THIS IS THE REALITY IN THIS CRIME-PLAGUED DISTRICT. SPICER FEELS THEIR HANDS ARE TIED. STOPPING SOMEONE RUNS THE RISK OF STARTING A CONFLICT, EVEN WHEN THE STOP IS WARRANTED. AND SPICER SAYS IF AN OFFICER ABUSES THEIR POWER AND HARMS SOMEONE, IT MAKES THE WHOLE FORCE HESITANT. HE THINKS THE MEDIA HAS GIVEN POLICE A BAD REP.
Spicer: Is it right for us to ever assault anyone? No. Ever, ever, ever. But are there times when, when fights happen between the police and the person you’re stopping? Yes. We document everything. We have transparency. We have cameras on our chest. For each use of force we do paperwork every step of the way. We do stuff. We document everything. Right? The fight part and where we we’re, we’re I think getting a bad bill of goods, is you never see in the news what precluded the fight. All you ever see is the fight part, because that’s the part that sells, right? That’s all you ever see. You didn’t see what was happening the 10 minutes before that, before the stop. Like, the cops don’t just get out and beat people about the head and neck and then say, hey, where’s your I.D.? You know, that’s gone, that person is gone. The Rodney King policing that you know, that, that nineties, eighties, nineties, actually probably seventies, eighties, nineties cops, it’s gone. It’s a thing of the past. It doesn’t exist.
SAMMY: BUT IT DOES EXIST IN PHILLY AND AROUND THE COUNTRY. TWO YEARS AGO, DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PROTESTS OVER THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, POLICE OFFICERS TEAR GASSED PROTESTORS WHO BLOCKED THE VINE STREET EXPRESSWAY.
SOUNDS OF SCREAMING, TEAR GAS BEING DEPLOYED AT THE PROTEST
SAMMY: PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER DANIELLE OUTLAW LATER ADMITTED THE EXPRESSWAY POLICE ACTION WAS A QUOTE, “UNJUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE.”
AND THERE’S WALTER WALLACE, JR. POLICE SHOT AND KILLED WALLACE ON OCTOBER 26, 2020, ABOUT SEVEN BLOCKS FROM THE SITE OF THE MOVE BOMBING. THE 27-YEAR-OLD BACK MAN AND FATHER OF EIGHT WAS MENTALLY ILL AND ARMED WITH A KNIFE.
HIS FAMILY CALLED 9-1-1 SEEKING HELP FOR HIM DURING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS. OFFICERS ARRIVED, AND COMMANDED HIM TO DROP THE KNIFE OUTSIDE HIS COBBS CREEK HOME.
SOUNDS OF YELLING
SAMMY: AS HIS FAMILY PLEADED WITH HIM, AND THE POLICE, AN OFFICER CAN BE HEARD SAYING, QUOTE, “SHOOT HIM,” ON BODYCAM FOOTAGE. POLICE BULLETS RANG OUT AND FATALLY STRUCK WALLACE.
SOUNDS OF YELLING, GUNFIRE FROM POLICE
SAMMY: SEVERAL PROTESTS ENSUED AFTER CELL PHONE VIDEO OF THE KILLING WENT VIRAL ON SOCIAL MEDIA. THE PENNSYLVANIA NATIONAL GUARD WAS DEPLOYED AS WAS A CITYWIDE CURFEW. WALLACE’S DAD ASKED WHY THE POLICE DIDN’T JUST TAZE HIM.
THE CITY PAID THE WALLACE FAMILY $2.5 MILLION IN SETTLEMENT OF A WRONGFUL DEATH SUIT.
YVONNE: AND THERE’S PHILLY DARK HISTORY…
ACTIVIST JAMAL JOHNSON REMEMBERS THE REIGN OF POLICE COMMISSIONER AND TWO-TERM MAYOR FRANK RIZZO, A MAN WHO TOLD PHILADELPHIANS IN 1970 TO, QUOTE, “VOTE WHITE.”
HERE HE IS SPEAKING ABOUT MOVE, THE CONTROVERSIAL BACK TO NATURE GROUP, IN 1978.
Rizzo: The police will be in there to drag them out by the backs of their necks. There will be a confrontation this time. There will be no barricades, Mike.
YVONNE RIZZO’s FORCE WAS TRYING TO EVICT THE GROUP FROM THEIR POWELTON VILLAGE HEADQUARTERS.
Rizzo: They’re going to be taken by force if they resist. No question about that. Children or not.
YVONNE: FOR MANY, RIZZO IS A SYMBOL OF THE RACISM AND POLICE BRUTALITY THAT GRIPPED THE CITY FOR DECADES. HE BOASTED HIS PHILLY COPS COULD SUCCESSFULLY INVADE CUBA. BUT MOST OF HIS WRATH WAS DIRECTED AT YOUNG BLACK MEN LIKE JOHNSON, WHO REGULARLY WERE STOPPED AND FRISKED.
Jamal Johnson: You know, my buttocks have been felt on, my private areas have been felt on by some of these, police officers, and I am not talking about recently.
YVONNE: YET DESPITE BEING HARASSED UNDER RIZZO’S AGGRESSIVE POLICING TACTICS, JOHNSON SUPPORTS USING STOP AND FRISK VIGOROUSLY.
Jamal: The bottom line is, you cannot look at these young people with these weapons bulging out of their sides in their pockets and act like you don’t see them. We have to start getting some of these weapons off the street and hold some of these young people accountable.
YVONNE: HE WANTS POLICE ON THE STREET KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE.
Jamal: The police just have to learn how to handle us better, deal with us more professionally, but they still have to come out and do what they’re supposed to be doing.
SAMMY: BUT WHILE OLDER MEN LIKE JOHNSON TEND TO SUPPORT POLICE AND CONVERSATIONS ON STOP AND FRISK OR TOUGHER POLICING, THE YOUNG BLACK MEN YVONNE AND I SPOKE TO AND OTHERS DON’T TRUST THE POLICE.
Yvonne: Here’s the thing, Sarge. So we were interviewing some young Black men in a community center, and there was one who, you know, he had done time in jail. He had, came out, got a job, really is trying to do the best he can, is involved in this community center, is really trying to change the narrative of his life. But he carries a gun because he’s scared. And he said if the cops ever stopped him, he would run.
Spicer: Okay.
Yvonne: And so, you know, you start playing it out in your head. He runs. He has a gun.
Spicer: So, no matter how scared he is, no matter what the parameters there are, he shouldn’t have a gun. So, anything he says after that is a moot point because he shouldn’t have the gun.
Number two, he’s going to run. We don’t know these people. You know, like when I say these people, these guys and gals are, so we’re always thinking the worst. If I’m chasing someone with a gun, I’m thinking I could die and I don’t want to die. You know what I mean? That’s my mindset. I always am going to protect myself.
I’m not saying that I’m shooting at that person, you know, just because I’m scared. I’m not. I’ve been involved in hundreds of gun arrests, hundreds. I’ve never fired my service weapon.
SAMMY: THE FEAR THAT POLICE FEEL IS REAL AND SPICER SAYS IT’S RARELY TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
Spicer: We’re scared, too. They’re scared. We’re scared. I get that. But he can’t be out on the street with that gun. You’re not solving anything. You’re the problem, not the solution. You know what I mean? So he sees something and he starts shooting. I don’t know who’s on whose team, you know what I mean? That’s not the answer.
Yvonne: So you see this here like right here is the problem because it doesn’t take a lot to see how dangerous these neighborhoods are, especially for young Black men. So they feel they need to arm themselves to protect themselves,
Spicer: I agree.
Yvonne: Because there’s so much of these things you’re hearing about, like, I was sitting in my car or somebody was in their car and then they just got shot and they weren’t even the person, the intended target.
Spicer: Agreed. But, let me stop you there. Did that gun that he have on him save him. So what they should be arming themselves with this Kevlar, not not other weapons you’re making yourself and your back to being the problem.
I’m sitting in the car and I’m at ninth and Indiana, ninth and Cambridge, and a shooting comes out and a bullet goes through my window and it hits me in the head. God forbid, you did nothing to deserve that. You did nothing to be a part of that. You didn’t, you didn’t bring it on. You didn’t encourage it. You didn’t, you know, do anything to get to that situation. But that gun in your waist, did it help you stop the bullet?
Sammy: And there are a lot of people that say, these guys aren’t going to be able to put the guns down until they feel safer.
Spicer: All right. Now, I agree with you 100% there.
MUSIC
Spicer: I even get that he has a gun in his house for his own protection, right? But to bring it out on the street at any point, you’ve raised concerns on both sides. The good guys and the bad guys. Right. Because nobody walks around with t-shirts that say, I’m a murderer, I’m a rapist, I’m a drug dealer, I’m a I’m a shooter. I’m a good guy. Right. I’m just carrying this to protect myself. We don’t know any of that. Right?
Sammy: So what do you say to young men who for the last, you know, two, three, four or five years have been seeing officer involved shootings on the news, have been seeing guys who look like them harmed at the hands of police. What do you say to them if they say that they’re scared?
Spicer: What I say to him is, number one, put the gun away. You’re not you’re not helping anything by carrying that gun. It may make you feel safer. It’s not, it’s not getting you any safer, right?
SAMMY; SPICER HAS BEEN AN OFFICER FOR 27 YEARS. HE DOESN’T BUY INTO THE “I’M SCARED OF THE POLICE” NARRATIVE.
Spicer: What we get tagged with, I think, is a little unfair. You know. I’m scared, I’m scared, I’m scared. But then, when we drive by a corner where these guys are hanging out and they’re giving us the finger, doing this, and yelling some names in this type of thing, that doesn’t sound like a scared person to me. It sounds like you’re the aggressor, and I’m out here. I say this to them all the time. I said, I’m here more than I’m home.
I have a family, and I spend more time in this neighborhood than I do in my own neighborhood. So, I have a vested interest. You know, I talk to these guys, I talk to them religiously. I talk to them when they’re under arrest. I talk to them, driving into the cell room. I talk to them in the cell room. I don’t make it personal. Never, ever, ever, ever personal. It’s not personal. I have a job to do. Just that simple.
MUSIC
YVONNE: THE 24TH DISTRICT IS A PLACE THAT MANY PHILADELPHIANS HAVE NO REASON TO VISIT. UNDER THE EL IS GRUESOME, WHAT YOU SEE CAN FUEL NIGHTMARES. AND YET NOTHING VISIBLY IS BEING DONE TO CHANGE IT.
Sammy: Does it, does it weigh on you, like that this crisis just continues to worsen and worsen?
Spicer: Yes, yes, because we have to deal with it daily.
Sammy: I’ve heard people here say that they feel like the city has abandoned Kensington.
Spicer: They have.
Sammy: And has kind of allowed the crime to to be shuffled to here.
Spicer: Keep it in the box is what was said, keep it in the box. I think more politicians than anybody else. Meaning like we’re going to concede this area as long as it doesn’t reach out to the other areas.
Well, now that gun violence is everywhere. It’s everywhere in the city. It’s everywhere. It’s in Center City. It’s in places where people have long, long money, meaning the very, very rich, that you don’t even know how rich they are. It’s hitting there, you know what I mean? People are getting shot there. Where does it end? Where does it end? It’s not in the box anymore. It’s outside the box. So now what do we do? We gotta work backwards, right? Sometimes civil liberties can get lost in that.
Sammy: How much do you know about the gun supply, and why there are so many more guns available now than there used to be?
Spicer: Are there more available, or are they just more out there and predominant?
Sammy: You tell me.
Spicer: I don’t think there’s more available. Well, there is more availability. Now you can order them by mail. You can make them. Ghost guns are out here and they’re prevalent and you’re ordering them through the mail. Again, the generation before mine, I don’t know how to do any of that stuff, I’m not sure my kids might even know how to, I don’t know. But, that’s a huge problem.
You know that there’s the the Internet has created a monster there. You know what I mean? You can order parts from China and have them there in a day and a half, you know, and they’re building guns. So, yes, that that part of it there is more availability. You’re not solving a gun problem by bringing guns to the problem. You know what I mean?
SAMMY: AND JUST LIKE COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE SUFFERING FROM THE TRAUMA OF THE GUN VIOLENCE, SPICER SAYS POLICE ARE TOO.
Spicer: I think all the cops that are out here to do this for a long time, we all suffer from some form of PTSD. I mean, it’s not normal to see people slaughtered, that’s not a normal thing. So. And I see it a lot. You go in the big city, you see it a lot. Does that plague? It sure does. We’re human, we have families. We see kids getting shot. That’s not that’s not an easy thing to do.
SAMMY: AS THE SUN GOES DOWN, SGT. SPICER DRIVES US BACK TO THE STATION. HE SAYS HE WISHES MORE PEOPLE COULD SEE HIS WORLD BECAUSE MAYBE IT COULD SPARK SOME REAL SOLUTIONS.
MUSIC
Spicer: I think that we need more people to come with us and see and say we have to do something about this. I think that we’re all in agreement there as human beings, color and all things aside, people need help and they need it today. We need it yesterday.
YVONNE: HE CHATS ABOUT HIS FAVORITE MOVIE, “A FEW GOOD MEN,” AND SUGGESTS WE WATCH “BRAVEHEART”. HE TELLS US HE DECOMPRESSES BY WATCHING TIK TOKS. AND THEN THE SUV ROLLS TO A STOP.
MUSIC
SAMMY: HERE’S A FOOTNOTE. SHORTLY AFTER THIS POLICE RIDE ALONG THERE WAS A MASS SHOOTING IN KENSINGTON.
Newscaster: Philadelphia police are still trying to figure out what led to a mass shooting in the Kensington section late last night. Nine people were shot, four of them are hospitalized with critical injuries. The other five are in stable condition.
SAMMY: IN TOTAL 39 PEOPLE WERE SHOT IN THE CITY THE WEEKEND OF NOVEMBER 4TH 2022.
SAMMY: IN THE NEXT EPISODE OF STOP AND FRISK: REVISIT OR RESIST, POLITICAL WILL, WE’LL HEAR FROM FORMER MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, WHO CHAMPIONED STOP AND FRISK DURING HIS TENURE.
Nutter: Done legally, it can be an effective tool. I didn’t want the police department to spend all day stopping, questioning, and frisking people. What I wanted was some of the shooters and killers out there to rethink whether they wanted to carry their gun that day.
SAMMY: PHILLY STOP AND FRISK: REVISIT OR RESIST IS A PRODUCTION OF WHYY AND TEMPLE UNIVERSITY’S LOGAN CENTER FOR URBAN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING. I AM SAMMMY CAIOLA, COHOST, PRODUCER AND WHYY’S GUN PREVENTION REPORTER.
YVONNE: AND I AM COHOST AND PRODUCER YVONNE LATTY, THE DIRECTOR OF TEMPLE’S LOGAN CENTER. OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS SARAH GLOVER, WHYY’S VP OF NEWS AND CIVIC DIALOGUE.
SAMMY: OUR EDITOR IS JORDAN GASS-POORE. MUSIC BY EMIR MATOUK. OUR ENGINEER IS AL BANKS. PRODUCTION ASSISTANT IS EDEN MACDOUGALL.
YVONNE: PLEASE RATE AND REVIEW WHEREVER YOU ARE LISTENING. HIT US UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA. WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. CHECK OUT OUR GUN VIOLENCE STORIES AND SOLUTIONS ON WHYY.ORG AND TEMPLELOGANCENTER.ORG. PLEASE JOIN US IN THIS CONVERSATION, AND THANKS FOR LISTENING.
collapse
