El Toro

[SOUND OF A PERSON SPRAY PAINTING OUTDOORS]

JUSTIN NAGTALON: We are about to get some spray paint on the wall and get some new art added to this side.

CONRAD BENNER, HOST: It’s a late-summer day in Kensington, a neighborhood in North Philadelphia. We’re standing in front of a white brick wall, watching a local artist spray paint an original cartoon character.

JN: So we’re starting out with an outline and then we’re going to fill in some color to get it going.

CB: This artist isn’t the only one on display here. The entire building is a collage of interconnecting artworks that create one big, collaborative mural.

And just around the block, there’s another creator at work, high up on a forklift.

[SOUND OF FORKLIFT]

JN: I just love painting with people outside in public again. You know, like I said, art is so lonely. It’s like you’re just making art in your room or like in a studio by yourself, where you don’t get to experience the camaraderie that it brings. So having it outside in the street like this and having friends that are having the same goals as you in the same, like, way that, I just want to make art, improve my skills, and celebrate art in public. That’s great. There’s nothing like it. It’s so awesome. Art outside is [BLEEP] amazing.

[THEME MUSIC]

CB: From WHYY, this is Art Outside, a podcast about the art in our public spaces — and the people who create it. I’m your host, Conrad Benner.

In this episode, we sit down with Justin Nagtalon, who goes by the artist name El Toro. We’ll talk with him about the signature character he’s known for, the hand-drawn sticker scene he helped to create here in Philadelphia, and why, in the last year, Justin decided to come out of anonymity and publicly claim his artworks, his heritage, and his community.

Justin’s passion was ignited decades ago, when he was just a kid living a world away from Philly…

OK. So you’re in the Philippines ‘till you’re ten and you just mentioned that it really inspired your art. Can you expand on that?

JN: Yeah. You know, I think it’s how I grew up. You know, I had a lot of ‘80s toys, like ThunderCats…

[SOUND FROM “HE-MAN”]

… He-Man toys, G.I. Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle toys growing up. I think that really informed me with my art now, because before it was very regimented and, like, with any art style, you kind of have to get the basics, the foundations down. But now, you know, now that I have a good, strong foundation, I thought about what it was growing up in the Philippines, and I was like, you know, that was like a lot happier times, a lot better times. So like, like, let me just focus on that and let me express that through what I learned, you know, through my talent.

CB: Was moving to the U.S. hard then?

JN: It was. It was. Basically like I was the 1% Asian in that whole community or the whole town. And I think that’s where art became my best friend.

[MUSIC]

CB: How many of us can relate? In moments of our lives when we feel alone, we turn to art for comfort. Books, movies, music. Or in Justin’s case, cartoons and comics. In his earliest memories of the U.S., art popped up in some surprising places.

JN: I think I saw it when I went to New York for the first time. My mom took the family to go see the whole thing of like, the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, and, like, the Empire State Building. But in that time, going into the tunnel, it was just graffiti everywhere. And I was like, ooh what is that? And what is that art? Because I’ve been drawing just cartoons, comic books, but I didn’t know that side of art.

CB: This opened Justin’s mind. He realized that his craft wasn’t just a solo act, like the doodling he had done alone in his room. Art could be communal.

JN: From there, I picked up a sticker first. So it wasn’t an aerosol can. It was like, I knew that was, like, where I wanted to go. But I was like, you know what? Let me practice.

CB: Baby steps.

JN: Yeah, baby steps. I don’t need to do that. Plus, I was also broke, but I had sharpies and free stickers from the postal office. So I was like, well, let’s do this first.

CB: Stickers are a huge part of the Philly street art scene. They might be easy to miss if you’re not paying attention. But when you look closely, you’ll find thousands of tiny, original artworks hidden in plain sight all over the city.

I’m sure most people have seen a sticker, right? But when we’re talking about sticker art, what are we talking about? Are you getting stickers from the store? Are you getting it from the post office? Are you using markers? Talk about it.

JN: OK, so stickers to me you can go, anything with an adhesive backing as a sticker, right? So people have taken postal labels or “hello, my name is” is the most common one that people have, you know, seen in their lives without realizing. And then you use usually, like, a paint marker. Because the paint marker lasts longer outside through the elements. And that’s what you want for your sticker to do is, like, you know, be seen by as many people as possible.

CB: Talk about placement. Where are you putting these stickers?

JN: My preferred place is what I call empty spots. Basically, before the stickers, I just saw that the back of signs of, like, you know, Philadelphia’s notorious for parking signs. And it’s almost like a paragraph of, like, “Monday through Thursday.” There’s like multiple signs per pole. But there was nothing ever behind it, you know? So, those signs are just so dreadful that I was like, maybe there’s something cute that I can do behind it, and, like, take up this spot and, you know, have someone notice this besides, like, being angry at whatever, the two-hour, can I park here in two hours? So I love the back of signs.

[MUSIC]

CB: That’s the beauty of hand-drawn stickers. They take those “empty spots,” as Justin calls them — like the backs of parking and traffic signs — and turn them into creative spaces. And oftentimes, these stickers don’t just represent individuals, but also communities of artists that have formed to rally and support each other.

JN: I think the sticker community here in Philadelphia, and throughout the world, is very strong. It’s finding, you know, your group of weirdos that also like to draw on stickers, which is such a weird niche. But once it clicks, it clicks, man.

CB: Coming up, we’ll introduce you to Justin’s original character. And talk about what inspired him to come out of anonymity and take on more commissioned public art projects. That’s next, on Art Outside.

[MIDROLL BREAK]

[STREET SOUNDS]

JN: So this is probably seven feet to 10 or 12 feet wide. So it’s nice, a couple bricks.

[SOUND OF SPRAY PAINTING]

CB: This is Art Outside. And we’re back with Justin, aka El Toro.

JN: We have El Toro, my character, on the right hand side. He is in this mischievous pose, where he’s looking back at you with his tongue out and spray painting. A spray paint cloud is coming out of a spray paint can on one of his hands.

CB: Justin’s newest mural includes his iconic original character, who’s also named El Toro.

[MUSIC]

JN: The character El Toro, how can I describe him? He’s taken a lot of evolutions from the 20 years I’ve been doing him, I’ve been creating him. And I think he just grows up with me, basically. So he is inspired by a carabao, which is a water buffalo in the Philippines. And I grew up just seeing them on the road, or just like when we go on vacations and stuff. So they were just out there. So he’s a humanoid, horned figure, usually smiling. He’ll have a goofy, like, snarky face on him. He’s been huge and big and bulky, but now he’s a little more slim and petite, and also exists in, like, a chibi form, which is like a Japanese kawaii. So at this form I really like drawing him in this, like, more cute, cuddly kind of way where he’s like, to me, I’ve been describing him as like a male Hello Kitty, which is also cute and kawaii, but also has a little mischievous side to him. A little bit of a vandalism side, you know, make it a little saucy.

CB: El Toro is accompanied in this mural by a handful of supporting characters.

JN: And on the left side of him is a reddish pinkish heart with vampire fangs. And on the left side of that is a lightning bolt with googly eyes. So it’s a visual kind of emoji talk where, you know, you don’t really need the barriers of language to understand.

[SOUND OF SPRAY PAINTING]

But it’s also, like, familiar, you know? Which I love, because, like, it’s all about the visual language of what we’re creating, and connections, and making sure that people kind of understand your viewpoints, but at the same time, giving them an opportunity to interpret it in their own way, and also hopefully create some sort of like memory, or trigger a memory, in which it was awesome to see this, you know, out in the streets. And it reminds them of, like, a past joy that they had.

CB: Making art has always felt essential for Justin. But especially lately. It’s gotten him through hard times, like when he lost his job a few years ago.

JN: And I was kind of salty at one point there, but I was like, something clicked to me. I was like, ‘No, dude, like, this is what you’ve been waiting for. This is exactly what you asked for. Like, you put this out there in the world, like, this is it. This is you. This is your first step, right? And like, do you want to make that a salty first step and, like, just angry and, like, use that as a motivation, or use what you’ve learned and what you’ve known in the past, which is, art has always given you joy, and always has been there for you as a best friend. Then, why would that be angry?’

[MUSIC]

CB: Losing his corporate job allowed Justin to make room for a full-time art career. It’s given him a new sense of purpose. And it helped him decide to go public with his art.

JN: Growing up and being too shy, or having my name and my face being separated, and having my art be just judged by the art itself and not the artist behind it. But at this point in my career, I think I’m ready, you know, I think I’m comfortable enough. Again, there’s a different space that we’re all existing at this point. And then inclusivity and being seen and, you know, having my Filipino heritage be out there became important to me. Before, I was not comfortable to share that, just because I don’t want you to think X, Y, Z. But I think now that I’m more comfortable in where I am and who I am, I think that it’s just healthy for me to show it and be present. But also, now I want to be, like, I have nieces and nephews that, you know, they know I do it. And like, being unknown versus known is so different that like, ‘No, like, I want you to be proud of me. Like I want you to see me for who I am, and not like, ‘Oh, he’s El Toro, but, like, don’t tell anybody.’’ We’re going to celebrate this. I’m no longer afraid of who I am. And I think that’s it’s such a big leap to connect, and also to understand my art more. I think that’s, you know, bridging that gap before wasn’t important, but now it is. And I think I have a lot more things to say because of it.

CB: A few months ago, El Toro spoke at his first public mural dedication.

[SOUND OF MURAL DEDICATION]

[MUSIC]

So you spoke of the dedication, now that, you know, you weren’t as anonymous anymore, you were able to show up to the dedication. And there were 50-plus people there, right? You’re at the podium, you’re giving your speech, you have your biggest mural behind you. What is that day like?

JN: That day was all love, man. It was just pure, it was all love. Bittersweet, ‘cause it’s ending, because it was such a great experience. But to end it in that way, where the people showed up and just supported us and, like, was there, it was amazing.

CB: That’s what art outside is capable of: bringing people together.

JN: I love seeing this, man. You know, the potential and, like, just the imagination of these artists to utilize this wall and this space in this scale alone, is, like, daunting for anybody. But these artists, like, took it on head first and really killed it. I can’t wait to see it all finished, because right now maybe three-quarters of the way done. But once it’s all here, it’s going to be more amazing than ever.

CB: Next time, on Art Outside…

[MUSIC]

SYMONE SALILB: Wheatpaste is a glue that’s made of flour, water, and a little bit of sugar. You know, ‘cause I’m a little sweet. [Laughter]

CB: We’re talking with famous Philly street artist Symone Salib, about how she got started making art in the public space.

SS: I’m a big ask for forgiveness not permission kind of girl.

CB: How she’s landed projects with big, national brands…

SS: I could not believe that I got to make something that was on a Skittles bag like across the country. That feels nuts.

CB: And how creating has helped her heal from her own trauma.

SS: We can make things that can be a container for our experience, like literally. Like, we can be creating a piece of art, and processing, like, these things that we’ve been through.

CB: That’s next time, on Art Outside.

[THEME MUSIC]

This is Art Outside. I’m your host, Conrad Benner.

Our producers are Michael Olcott and Michaela Winberg. Our engineer is Charlie Kaier, with engineering help from Al Banks, Tina Kalakay, and Adam Staniszewski. Our executive producer is Tom Grahsler.

Our theme song is SNACKMFTIME by SNACKTIME. Our tile art was created by El Toro, aka Justin Nagtalon.

Special thanks to Louisa Boyle, Naomi Brito, Aubrie Costello, Grant Hill, Mike Mehalick, Alejandro Miyashiro, Sarah Moses, Maiken Scott, Jason Andrew Turner, and Kayla Watkins.

Art Outside is a production of WHYY. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Executive Producers: Tom Grahsler
Producers: Michael Olcott, Michaela Winberg
Engineers: Charlie Kaier, Al Banks, Tina Kalikay, Adam Staniszewski
Mixing: Charlie Kaier
Tile Art: Justin Nagtalon
Theme Song: SNACKMFTIME by SNACKTIME

Special thanks to Louisa Boyle, Naomi Brito, Aubrie Costello, Grant Hill, Mike Mehalick, Alejandro Miyashiro, Sarah Moses, Maiken Scott, Jason Andrew Turner, and Kayla Watkins.

Art Outside is a production of WHYY.