Schooled on Philly Arts

Executive Producers: Tom Grahsler
Producer: Alex Lewis
Associate Producer: Bibiana Correa
Engineers: Charlie Kaier, Al Banks, Tina Kalikay, Adam Staniszewski
Sound Design and Mixing: Rowhome Productions
Tile Art: Justin Nagtalon
Theme Song: SNACKMFTIME by SNACKTIME

Special thanks to Michaela Winberg, Michael Olcott, Sarah Moses, Mike Shiffler, and Kayla Watkins.

Art Outside is a production of WHYY.

CONRAD BENNER, HOST: You get an email that says Quinta Brunson chose you. What the fuck do you do after you get that email?

ATHENA SCOTT: Well, you sit for a minute. (Laughter) You sit for a minute and you just… Listen, this journey has been crazy.

[THEME MUSIC]

CB: This is Art Outside a podcast from WHYY about the art of our public spaces and the people who create it.

I’m your host, Conrad Benner. And for the last 14 years, I’ve been documenting these works from my blog, The Streets Department.

So in today’s episode, we’re introducing you to Athena Scott. She’s a painter who was born and raised in Philly, and her winding path as an artist has brought her through many of our city’s most famous art schools and institutions. Temple’s Tyler School of Art, the University of the Arts, the Art Institute, the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts and the Fabric Workshop, just to name a few. And if you’ve been following local news, you’ll know that this year has been particularly hard on these institutions.

[RADIO TURNING ON]

ANNOUNCER 1: The Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts is cutting its degree programs.

ANNOUNCER 2: University of the Arts is closing this week.

ANNOUNCER 3: The announcement was sudden and jarring.

CB: We’re near the Delaware River, in fact, I think we’re on the Delaware River.

CB: Athena invited me over to her studio at Cherry Street Pier to talk about her journey as an artist and what it means for the local art scene to have spaces to nurture and present work. She also gave me the scoop about the Abbott Elementary mural she’s been working on.

CB: Athena, it’s so great to see you.

AS: Hi! This is so wonderful

CB: Thank you for having us.

CB: Speaking of cool local art spaces, if you haven’t been there yet, Cherry Street Pier is a repurposed municipal pier on the Delaware River waterfront. It’s now a public space with exhibitions, food, drinks and also studio spaces for artists and residents. Athena gave me a tour of the pier, which included a stop at a large eight foot by eight foot mini mural that she made of Maudelle Bass. She was a trailblazing African-American concert dancer who was also famous for being a model for the artist Diego Rivera.

AS: And it’s a portrait of a beautiful Black woman with kind of like a hood shawl-like thing over top of her head. And she’s gazing up into the sky. Depending on how you come into it, she could be very serious. She could be upset. She could be reflective. It just depends on how you enter it and how you receive it. It’s the emotion that you’re taking away with it.

CB: A lot of Athena’s work focuses on portraits of legendary Black figures; James Baldwin, Nina Simone, Miles Davis. She also often paints close friends and family. Athena told me that she loves trying to show people being their natural selves.

AS: I’m more so like, yeah, I’m trying to get the likeness, but I’m more so trying to convey that feeling or that emotion. I want you to feel something when I paint. Not expressing it verbally, but expressing it through like my art. Like, this is what I’m feeling right now. And like, once it’s done and it kind of releases something for me, you know?

CB: That’s what art can do, right? It can make people feel things. What do you want people to do with those feelings?

[MUSIC]

AS: I’m not really trying to direct a person on like how to feel. I play around with, like, the negative space in my work. And I feel like there’s a thing that I want you to concentrate on, but in that negative space, it’s like you’re filling in the rest of that information.

CB: In her painting of Maudelle Bass, there are swaths of blue, yellow and gray color surrounding the figures face. This is the negative space that Athena is describing. It really does invite you to bring your own experiences and memory to the artwork.

AS: And I think that’s what I want to do is just to try to kind of trigger that emotion or like, you know, or just have that conversation about,”Oh I remember when I was younger” and “Oh I remember this moment with my dad,” or “It just reminds me of that.” It kind of just takes you out of like, all this, like, outside noise and like, we’re talking about something that, like, means something to you or like you care about.

CB: Although Athena has had the heart and soul of an artist since she was a kid, it’s been a long journey to becoming a full time professional painter. After the break, we talk with her about how the year 2020 was a turning point in her career. She also tells me how Quinta Brunson chose her to make a new mural. Stay with us.

MIDROLL

CB: Athena has a very vivid memory of the moment she knew she was going to be an artist. She was about six years old and she was at her childhood home in Philly.

AS: The story is, like, when I first realized I had like a skill. My brother, my older brother, was into like hip hop, breakdancing, and graffiti. And one day he came to me and was like, Hey, he just challenged me to like just a drawing kind of like test or whatever. And we basically picked a comic out of like the newspaper or whatever. And he said, “Okay, whoever draws this the best is the winner,” kind of. It was nothing that came out of it. But what came out of it was me, once it was done and I saw how well I did, it was me figuring out like that was like my thing.

CB: Now, who was the judge of who was better?

AS: I guess because it was just the two of us. So I’m assuming it was him, but he never challenged me again after that.

CB: Wow. There you go.

AS: I saw something

CB: You won. Yeah. (Laughter) Do you remember? Clearly you remember you feel like you won.

AS: I feel like I did. Now, he may have it, like, recall it differently, but that was a that’s a memory that’s been with me for, like, a long time.

CB: So then what I do remember you saying is you would go off to these spaces and draw.

AS: So with that, when I discovered like, drawing, drawing became kind of like that thing that comforted me or just kept me company, and also kind of allowed me to like, I don’t know, speak in a way. Like if I didn’t understand something or, or if I felt like, you know, I needed to express something or whatever, I would just start drawing. It wouldn’t be on that subject or anything like that. But just the act of drawing was like kind of like therapy or like that like comforting thing.

CB: Now, you mentioned when we were at Cherry Street Pier that there was one teacher, you had, one art teacher you had, when you were younger that was really special to you. Can you tell us about that relationship?

AS: Ms. Starr. She was my favorite art teacher at Penn Wood High School. She was just an amazing, an amazing person. I think I would always gravitate towards a certain, like, teacher or whatever, but in high school, just being in her classroom was kind of like being home. Where I just could really just kind of be myself, be creative if I was a little quirky or, you know, a little jittery, you know, I’m like all over the place or whatever. She just kind of allowed me to just be who I was. I think she made me fall in love with my sketchbook. I think in seeing some of my sketches, she would direct me to a certain artist, like, “Hey, I think you should check out this artist.” And I was like, Oh, this person is a known artist. And here is this art teacher, my art teacher that I love is saying, “Hey, you need to check this person out because it says something about what you’re doing that brings me to that.” It was kind of like, I’ve just taken that a little bit. And then I learned something and then she dropped another little nugget and I was like, you know, tricky.

CB: Teacher should make $1 trillion a year.

AS: But yes, she just I just think we relate in a way that where she knew how to kind of like just plant a seed for me and knew that I would kind of take it to the like the next spot.

CB: And not only did you do that, you know, on this podcast, we interview a lot of artists who come from many different backgrounds. Some never went to school for art. But you have this really interesting trajectory in your career that it’s almost impossible not to talk about for this season of this podcast, where so much of this is in peril right now. And let me add some context to that. So you went to UArts, you took some classes, Saturday classes at UArts when you’re in middle school. You ended up going to the Art Institute, which closed about 10, 15 years ago at this point. And then you got your master’s from PAFA, which no longer offers that option, that master’s program. You were then a Mural Arts Black Fellow. And Mural Arts has, I think, publicly said a few times like their budget hasn’t been increase in years that at this point quite literally an artist coming up today could not take the same path you took. Those, you know, UArts doesn’t exist anymore and Art Institute doesn’t exist anymore. Just thinking about all of that, do you have any reflection of that in this moment? As someone who went through all that and was able to take opportunity of these institutions.

AS: It’s a sad time. And it’s also is just kind of uncertain about where things are going as far as this the opportunities for kids to have like that outlet. I’m sure that they’re like places that they can go like within a community or, you know, other locations like, say, like a. Fleischer or something like that to take classes. But these big institutions that have been like a part of, like, Philadelphia are just kind of like, you know, dropping like flies pretty much. And it’s, for me, like, I don’t know where I would be if I didn’t touch those different places and had the experience with those professors. So it’s very sad. But, I mean, artists find a way. We’ll find our people or those places where we can kind of like be, you know, ourselves, whether it’s at home or in someone’s house or whatever. But it’s definitely concerning that these institutions are closing down with no kind of like answer as to what can replace those.

CB: With all of these changes with Philly’s higher education institutions, I can’t help but think, you know, lots of kids are making decisions about higher education, generally speaking these days, especially with the higher costs. And many are choosing to go a different route. Like from your perspective, is college. This is a silly question maybe, but is college important? Is art school valuable?

AS: I think it depends on the person. You know, like, for me, I didn’t necessarily have to go back to school to get my masters. I could have, you know, just got a studio and just worked it out and maybe figured it out. But for me, being in an environment with, you know, professors or professional artists and in other artists who are also trying to figure out what they’re doing with their practice, that inspires me. So being in that environment works for me. And I think it helped, like kind of pushed me further and made me see things a little bit differently. And also like, you know, learning some of the history of art. But I don’t know if you necessarily, like need to. I mean, I want like, you know, an artist to be like informed in some way. You know, it can come from college or it can come from just life. But, you know, as long as they’re, you know, studying in some way.

CB: You mentioned the graphic design route and the journey you were on for 14 years or so and being pretty dissatisfied with that. You’re now, I guess, a full time artist, Full time working artist. What does your life as a full time working artist look like now? You walk into your studio at Cherry Street Pier when you’re moving through that space there are a couple of different sections. There’s a couch. Hopefully you take rest breaks from time to time.

AS: Every once in a while. (Laughter)

CB: Every couple of days.

AS: Every couple of days.

CB: What is a normal day if it exists, look like for you?

AS: I don’t even know what a normal day is anymore, but I enjoy it. When I had like, the day to day where I knew my schedule and stuff like that, I think that killed me slowly. I was like, it was really like just bringing me down. And I think every day kind of doing what I do. I, you know, I work with Mural Arts sometimes, I do my own kind of stuff in my studio. I do commissioned work. I even still sometimes will tap into the graphic design space and do like some freelance work if I need, you know, a couple extra bucks. But I basically in learning and in making my own schedule, then it’s definitely a rollercoaster. It’s, you know, there’s like, you know, highs and lows and, you know, even in those like, kind of like, low times where I’m just like, what am I doing? I still like, stay with it. Because at the end of the day, I don’t know what else I would be doing if I wasn’t doing some type of art.

CB :So you talked about like selling canvas work commissions, working with Mural Arts Philadelphia. And that is all a result of, if I understand your story correctly, the year 2020 changing your life.

AS: I was having this kind of itch in me like I needed to kind of like shift and change.

CB: And would you have been graduated from PAFA at that point or just graduated?

AS: 2020 I was just starting.

CB Just starting? Oh wow.

AS: So I had applied to Cherry Street and PAFA at the same time figuring that I would get one or the other. And if it worked, it worked. If it didn’t, at least I, you know, I said, “Look, I invested in me.”

CB: And you got both.

AS:And I got both.

CB: And then were you like, “Oh I’m the shit?”

AS: So no, I was like, “Oh shit, I have to figure out. I have to make a decision” because I got Cherry Street, which is, you know, a studio space. And then I got into the master’s program at PAFA and then I had work.

CB: Right. So you’re still doing graphic design?

AS: I’m still doing graphic design, so full time. So it’s like something’s got to give. I’ve always been taught like, you know, you have a job and you have a plan and you have to do, you know, A, B and C. And this was like just throwing like a grenade in that whole, like, thinking. And so I was going to have like a decision to make. And I found out about both of those getting both of those I think January 2020\. And so I kind of kept it like low-key because I was really still trying to figure out what I was going to do. Whether I was just going to do one or the other. And then in March 2020, as we all know, everything kind of shut down and COVID pretty much made the decision for me. I wound up being furloughed from my job until about that July. And then I think that July we were able to actually go into our studios and just work, which was great because everything was shut down. And as I mentioned earlier, being creative was my escape. So things were going left or whatever I would retreat to creating. So I think by that July, I think I got officially like laid off. And, you know, they set me up for a little bit where, you know, I could take care of myself and didn’t have to like, kind of worry about things. So I just fully dove in to having the artist studio that I think that August school started and basically just kind of just dove in hardcore for two years straight, just blacked out. (Laughing) It’s like it. But again, it was just if COVID didn’t happen, I don’t know what decision I would have made. I don’t know if I would have just did Cherry Street or just did school or if I would have just said, would have just been happy that I got the, you know, the opportunity and just kept working because I would have been nervous about letting that go, you know, that, you know, consistent check, you know, and healthcare.

CB: It’s wild how 2020 changed so many people’s careers and the number of artists I’ve met, like younger artists who like got into art during COVID because they were looking for something to do, too, it’s been really interesting. 2022\. I’m counting the years. It is only 2024.

AS: It’s crazy.

CB:So that like two years ago.

AS: 2020 feels like it was like.

CB I know.

AS: 15 years ago.

CB: Well, time is moving very weird.

AS: It’s fast and slow at the same time.

CB: And now you are in the midst. You are handpicked by a local celebrity. Or I shouldn’t say local because she’s international. You are handpicked by a beloved celebrity to do a very important real, big mural somewhere in Philly. Who is that person? What is this project?

AS: Well, I’m still really processing how I got here, but I think back in June, Mural Arts reached out to me and let me know that I was a part of like a presentation for Quinta Brunson and ABC.

CB: The Quinta. Brunson.

AS: The Quinta. I love her, by the way. I just love seeing like how she’s just kind of like from when she started to where she is now and like how.

CB: And the way she loves Philly. Mural Arts was actually in that first season. I believe there was a Mural Arts episode and the way she loves Philly and stays connected to Philly.

AS: Because like even when it like opens up and you see the mural and outside the school or whatever, it’s just every episode is a shout out to like, you know, Philly. So they reached out and said, Hey, we have this project basically Quinta would like for a mural to be done at this the, I guess the elementary school that she went to and in West Philly. It’s Andrew Hamilton Elementary. It’s also a two part kind of project. So it will be the mural at the school. And then elements from that mural will be turned into a temporary mural that would be installed in L.A., I believe.

CB: Wow. And let’s just be clear. We’re saying it’s created with Quinta and Abbott Elementary, but this is not going to be a billboard for the show.

AS: No, this is a big mural. Like, I’ve assisted on a large-scale mural before, but I have never led a project and this is exciting.

CB: Well, so let’s go there How is the large scale mural made? And then what is the theme of this mural? Because again, it’s not just the characters from the show.

AS: Basically, the mural is like the whole like backside of the school where they have recess. There’s like a community garden there and stuff like that. The only process that I’ve actually worked on like personally as far as, like making, doing like large scale murals is painting on like parachute cloth. I don’t know the official like, name of the cloth.

CB: Polytab!

AS: There you go!

CB: That came out of me, like a demon. Polytab. Okay, but everyone calls it parachute cloth.

AS: Yeah. So polytab, it’s like thin kind of cloth that is absorbent. And so it receives like paint well. What they’ll do is they kind of like, like you’ll do the design and they’ll put like kind of like a ghost print on the polytab and we’ll cut it up in kind of like squares almost, kind of like if you were doing like the grid method, like just square by square by square.

CB: And a ghost print just to give you a picture of that. Imagine your printer just ran out of all the ink. There’s a drop of ink left and that’s what it prints.

AS: It’s just the essence of it. It’s the essence of whatever the artwork is. And basically it’s there because it’s large-scale and you’re basically getting your design in sections and it just helps you keep like the proportion. So you don’t like have an eyeball, you know, 20 feet high and the other eyeball is at six feet.

CB: And by proportions you literally mean so usually they’re cut out by like what, five feet by five feet?

AS: I think it’s five by five.

CB: And artists will sometimes put them up into a wall. Oftentimes they’re created with communities so you’ll invite community members out to help paint them. Or you’ll have other assisting artists, but they’re painted in those squares. And it’s almost like looking at a pixelation up close, or like an impressionist painting up close. Like it’s hard to tell what you’re doing.

AS: You’re super zoomed in so you use like your photo, like reference of your design to kind of follow along. And then also to it is helpful that it’s the sheets and it’s cut up. So if you do have assistants and or you are doing some type of community engagement like other people can work on it and still keep within the design.

CB: Right. So you are a portrait artist. This mural will feature portraits of teachers and students at the school.

AS: It’s still in the like the early design stages and we had a design review, but right now it’s like student and faculty. I want it to really feel connected to the school. I guess, to describe it. I’m basically going to be using two figures, hopefully, and most likely it’ll probably be two students from the school, but they’re kind of growing out of this like garden, which throughout the garden may have different like imagery of like faculty and other students just kind of engage with each other, just kind of like showing that growth and kind of what leads or helps that kid, you know, along in the journey like through school, life, whatever.

CB: So last question. If there is a kid out there listening who just won a drawing battle with their brother, what advice might you give to that kid?

AS: Keep going. If that’s your like if that’s your thing and you’re proud of it and, you know, being creative and being a creative is, you know, what you feel like that’s in your heart to do. Just keep investing in that. You know, even though we’ve been talking about like, my journey and like how things are going and I’m doing this mural. I promise you, I did not see half of the stuff on my bingo card. And it’s just day to day. I’m just kind of following that thing that I love.

[MUSIC]

AS: So, you know, as long as you’re safe, you know, and it keeps you out of trouble, you know, if being an artist and being creative is something that you do like, you don’t necessarily have to do it for a living, but keep doing it because that’s what’s naturally in you to do and it’s part of you just like breathing. So just, you know, invest in that and just, you know, see where it takes you.

AS: I think they used to like deliver like fruits and vegetables.

CB: We’re back at Cherry Street Pier in Athena’s studio.

AS: So like this one, this like yellow and red one over here. That was like when…

CB: Athena’s studio is colorful and cozy. The walls are covered with her paintings and there’s a big comfy sofa in the corner. And in the back there’s a kind of hidden work desk that you can’t see from the windows. It’s really a lovely, creative lived in space.

AS: That was like when I actually first started getting back into like painting.

CB: We got to talking a little bit more about how unpredictable the journey can be as an artist.

[MUSIC]

CB: One day ABC can be emailing you about an exciting commission and then weeks can go by with nothing. It can be hard, but like so many of the artists I talk with, for Athena, there’s just no other option.

AS: It’s hard because it’s like you’re doing something that you love, but you also have to live. You know, you got to eat. You know, you sometimes question whether or not you can do this, you know, because there are like outside things that are like, you know, making you question that. But again, I go back to that thing of how, you know, art and being creative is always kind of like sought me through.

[MUSIC]

CB Next time on Art Outside.

SEAN 9 LUGO: Even what I’m doing now, eight hours from now, it could be gone. This is one of the reasons why I love this wheatpasting so much. It’s. It’s kind of like. It’s kind of like life. It’s temporary. You don’t know how long it’s going to last.

CB: That’s next on Art Outside.

[THEME MUSIC]

This episode of Art Outside was produced by Alex Lewis.

Our associate producer is Bibiana Correa.

Tom Grahsler is our executive producer.

Art Outside’s production, sound design and mixing is by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Executive Producers are John Myers and Alex Lewis.

Our engineers are Charlie Kaier, Diana Martinez, Tina Kalakay, Adam Staniszewski and Al Banks.

Our theme song is SNACKMFTIME by SNACKTIME. Our tile art was created by El Toro, aka Justin Nagtalon.

Special thanks to Michaela Winberg, Michael Olcott, Sarah Moses, Mike Shiffler, and Kayla Watkins.

I’m your host, Conrad Benner.

Art Outside is a production of WHYY. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.