The Missed Opportunity of Trains in the U.S.

[SOUNDS OF TRAIN RUNNING ALONG TRACKS, CHATTER ON BOARD THE TRAIN, TRAIN HORN BLARING]

RODNEY PASKO [OVER PA ANNOUNCEMENT]: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it’s your favorite lounge car attendant, Rod Pasko, speaking. Folks, the lounge car is once again open and serving, serving ice cold beer, mixed drinks, snacks, sandwiches, soda pops, souvenirs, fresh, hot, delicious coffee, wine, and cup of noodles. You name it, folks, I pretty much have it — featuring my infamous and now internationally famous Bloody Marys. Come on down, folks, lounge car, open and serving.

TARIRO MZEZEWA, HOST: Last summer, Peak Travel producer Michaela Winberg and her partner Nicole took a 2,000-mile train ride across the United States.

[MUSIC]

MICHAELA WINBERG, PRODUCER: The train is called the California Zephyr. That’s the route, and it’s really well known in, like, the Amtrak network because it’s, like, top five most picturesque routes. Like, the scenery along the whole thing is just amazing.

CONDUCTOR [OVER PA ANNOUNCEMENT]: …And it won’t take long for us to be right beside it, that’s the South Boulder Creek…

MW: What I really, really liked about the train is that the conductors are, like, constantly getting over the loudspeaker to describe what you’re seeing.

CONDUCTOR: …Out there to the right, it was pretty gross looking, that’s because it’s the Gross Dam and Reservoir named after Dwight D. Gross…

MW: It’s not like you’re just looking at the Colorado River, or you’re just passing through mountains in Utah, but also the conductor is getting on the mic and, like, telling you facts about what you’re looking at.

CONDUCTOR: …That’s my favorite view, ’cause it only lasts just about a second every day.

TM: In the U.S., long-distance train travel isn’t all that popular. Here, cars and planes are the most common way to get around.

[ARCHIVAL VIDEO ABOUT CAR TRAVEL]

ANNOUNCER: More and more and more cars. The program involves the construction of 41,000 miles of expressway connecting every segment of the United States.

TM: And that’s a problem. Emissions from cars and planes play a significant role in the U.S.’s total global warming pollution.

[ARCHIVAL VIDEO ABOUT CAR TRAVEL]

ANNOUNCER: The car is freedom on wheels, and we have embraced it more than any other country on Earth.

[THEME MUSIC]

TM: From WHYY, this is Peak Travel. I’m your host, Tariro Mzezewa. Today, we’re talking about trains. While other developed countries have invested in their rail systems, the U.S. has leaned into more individualistic ways of getting around — that are also more dangerous.

MW: So can you introduce yourself?
NICOLE NIKOLICH: My name is Nicole Nikolich. I’m 31 years old.
MW: How do we know each other?
NN: We date.
MW: You’re my girlfriend?
NN: Yes. [Laughter]

MW: I just have always really liked trains. I find them very relaxing. I find them so much more enticing than flying or driving. I was talking to my girlfriend about this for, like, years, and finally she agreed to do it with me. So we took an Amtrak train all the way from Chicago to Emeryville, California, which is, like, right outside San Francisco.

[SOUND OF OPENING THE CABIN DOOR]

NN: This says 12.
MW: Okay perfect, we’re here.
NN: Oh my gosh, it’s so small!
MW: Get in! [Laughter]

[MUSIC]

MW: So we had what’s called a roomette…

NN: The video that they posted online makes it look so much bigger. It’s kind of cute though. Oh my gosh, this is so cute!
MW: [Laughter] It is really cute, actually. It’s, like, such a vibe.
NN: I’m obsessed.
MW: How cute!

TM: There was a lot to explore on the train.

MW: There’s really cool things that you get to spend your time doing. There’s, like, a whole observation car, where it’s, like, literally floor to ceiling windows. You’re looking out at this amazing scenery through, just, like, pure glass, and you can like play games or drink a coffee from the cafe car or, just, like, chat with whoever you’re there with.

AVILA SMOTHERS: Right now we were just kind of hanging out. My brother’s watching a show on his Kindle, but me and my dad, we’re making stuff with our kinetic sand.

TM: Avila is 11 years old. She’s traveling to Denver with her brother and her dad, Calvin Smothers.

MW: I met them in the observation car with the beautiful windows, and they were just having a great time.

TM: Her family decided to take the train instead of driving, like they normally would.

AS: I’m actually really excited about it.

MW: Yeah?

AS: Because I’ve never done this. And it’s a new adventure to try, and I love the observation car, because you can just see everything.

TM: And since Calvin isn’t at the wheel, he can take it all in with his kids.

CALVIN SMOTHERS: If I was driving right now, it would, it’s both kids in the backseat connected to, like, their Kindles, and me stressfully driving in traffic, where, I’m not the fastest driver. So usually people are my tail and I’m like, “Ah!” I’m feeling stressed out about that. And this is way more chill. I’m sitting at a table. We’re eating snacks and having a great time. And it’s just, it’s fun, too, to give the kids experiences outside of the typical for them, you know?

TM: It’s more fun and more comfortable, sure. It’s also better for the planet, which is something Calvin has thought about a lot. He’s from Salt Lake City, where he could see climate disasters happening all around him.

[MUSIC]

CS: You kind of had a finger on the pulse of climate change, because the wildfires in California, or in Utah, or in Oregon, all of it just fills up in the valley, and there’s just pollution everywhere. And that, plus the drought that they were experiencing, you really felt like it’s right in your face, right? And so it was actually important, too, for us to see, how can we get here where it’s not like such an impact on the environment?

TM: Next on Peak Travel, how trains could help our planet. That’s coming up, after the break.

[MIDROLL BREAK]

[MUSIC]

TM: This is Peak Travel. I’m Tariro Mzezewa.

Taking the train instead of driving or flying sounds like a small thing, but it could make a difference.

STEVEN HIGASHIDE: When you look at U.S. climate emissions, transportation is the biggest contributor, a little under a third of U.S. climate emissions.

TM: Steven Higashide is one of the country’s leading experts on sustainability and public transportation.

SH: The U.S. transportation system is the most carbon intensive of any developed country. Talk about American exceptionalism, you know, we have by some measures the transportation system that’s doing the most harm to the climate of any wealthy country. We know if we are going to solve the climate crisis, we have to solve for transportation.

TM: Amtrak is electrified on some routes, like the Northeast Corridor. There, the train is much cleaner than the alternatives. But in other parts of the country, trains still run on diesel fuel, which makes them less environmentally friendly. That’s why Steven says modernizing the system is so important.

SH: If we had a real investment in a high-speed rail system in the U.S., you could reduce our carbon emissions by about 800 million metric tons over 40 years. That’s roughly equivalent to taking one out of six planes out of the sky.

TM: It couldn’t be more important right now, as the effects of climate change continue to rage all around us.

SH: If we don’t have a kind of all-hands-on-deck approach to solving this, it’s just going to get worse and worse. Yes, it’s daunting, but we can also do it in a way that creates a better world for everyone.

TM: It could make our country safer in a number of ways. Studies show that with our reliance on cars in the U.S., nearly 45,000 people died in crashes in 2021. That’s three times more than any other wealthy nation in the world.

[SOUNDS OF CHATTER IN THE TRAIN’S CAFE CAR]

Back in the train’s cafe car, Michaela and Nicole were able to put a face to what had become a familiar voice.

[MUSIC]

RODNEY PASKO: John Rodney Pasko is the full name. I go by Rodney, which is my middle name. Basically I’m the bartender, snack bar guy on the train.

TM: Rodney’s been doing this for 35 years. He’s got his fair share of funny stories from the tracks. After all, he runs the bar.

RP: You ever seen the movie Superbad?
MW: Yes.
RP: I had a guy who tried to get beer off me using the Hawaiian license McLovin.
MW: No!
RP: Yeah.

[CLIP FROM SUPERBAD]

CLIP: What kind of stupid name is that, Fogell? What are you trying to be, an Irish RnB singer?

TM: He also has some thoughts about the rail system, like that train travel is a missed opportunity in the U.S.

RP: In general, I think everyone should travel more. I think Europeans have a more comfortable model for when they have time off — and they do get time off — they go travel, like on purpose. [Laughter] And here in the United States, it’s less that than, “Oh I want to go to a particular place for a particular reason,” rather than just for travel. So I honestly feel like if we had more trains, and trains were more popular, we would have more of that. So yeah, and I think it’d be a good thing for everyone. I think it helps broaden people. And this is a great way to do it. See the country from the windows, you know? [Laughter]

TM: So why don’t more Americans travel by train?

WILLIAM VANTUONO: Passenger rail travel is not considered as important as highways and airplanes.

TM: William Vantuono is the editor-in-chief of Railway Age, a trade publication. Over time, he’s seen the U.S. government divest from train travel — and basically give highways a blank check.

WV: In the 1950s, when the interstate highway system was starting to be built, when the jet airplane came in, commercial aviation, the people left the trains, and they took to their cars and the airplanes. And the railroads lost a lot of business to trucks, who had a publicly provided interstate highway system, designed for trucks, OK, with clearances and all that.

[MUSIC]

TM: We still fund our highways almost entirely with government money. In 2021, the U.S. spent $56 billion on federal highways, and just $5 billion on railroads.

WV: Trains became a huge money-losing proposition.

TM: Moving cargo by train became more profitable than moving people. And so gradually, freight rail companies took over a larger share of the infrastructure. Now, they own 70% of the tracks. And that’s part of the reason we have so few networks for passenger trains.

The U.S. tried to revitalize its passenger rail system in the 1970s…

[1970S AMTRAK ADVERTISEMENT]

ADVERTISEMENT: If you’re traveling near or far, don’t hassle with a plane or car, Amtrak has a better way. See the country, travel Amtrak…

TM: But Amtrak is technically a private company that receives only some of its funding from the federal government. And not enough to keep up. Tickets are expensive, and routes in many places have been abandoned entirely.

WV: The Amtrak system we have today pretty much hasn’t changed all that much from what was founded back in 1971.

TM: There have been attempts at fixing the system, but they never quite materialize.

WV: There have been many false starts in the United States that I’ve observed in the past 30 years in Florida, in Texas.

TM: Because Amtrak is part private, it’s supposed to make a profit, instead of being handled like a public service, which is how trains work in other countries.

WV: If you look at the passenger rail systems all around the world, they’re public companies. The government, like, the German government, the French government, Italian, wherever you go, China. China has invested a half a trillion dollars building the world’s largest true high-speed rail network, 220 mile-an-hour trains.

TM: China is now famous for its high-speed rail. It’s invested billions of dollars into building nearly 30,000 miles of tracks in the last 20 years. We had to see what it was like, so our producer, Aowen Cao, visited a train station in Beijing to ride the rails there.

[SOUNDS OF CHATTER AND PEOPLE IN TRAIN STATION MAIN HALL]

AOWEN CAO, PRODUCER: I went to Beijing’s South Railway station. It’s one of the biggest stations in Beijing for high-speed trains. And so the waiting hall of the station is fully packed.

[MUSIC]

AC: There’s hustles and bustles, a lot of people waiting for their trains as it’s the first day of the Golden Week, a 12-day-long holiday in China.

TM: Chinese travelers have everything about train travel — from routes, ticketing, seating, and snacking — down to a science.

AC: Like you can order food at a McDonald’s in the city that you pass by, and someone would bring your order when the train stopped at that city. [Laughter] Bring your order on the train. And nowadays for some trains, like for the trains between Beijing and Shanghai, they sell fresh Starbucks coffees.

TM: Aowen met Ice Han on a train to Beidaihe, a beachside city 180 miles east of Beijing.

AC: She was sitting next to me. I saw her, literally, like I saw her walking to the sink of the train and putting on a facial mask in front of a mirror. [Laughter] It’s like she was chilling out at her own home.

TM: Just to be clear, Aowen isn’t talking about a protective face mask here. Ice was wearing a sheet mask while riding the train. Like the kind you get at a spa.

ICE HAN [TRANSLATED FROM MANDARIN CHINESE]: I came for a weekend trip, because I own a house in Beidaihe on the beachside, so I brought my kid here for the weekend, to relax a bit, do homework, and then go back to Beijing.

AC: The reason why she chose Qinhuangdao is exactly because there is a high-speed train connecting Beijing and Qinhuangdao. And she says it’s more tiring to drive.

TM : Plus, the train cuts Ice’s travel time in half.

IH: It’s 350 kilometers away. By car, it might be a more than four-hour drive. I drove it once. It was pretty tiring. And the highways are not very safe. There are traffic jams as well. With high-speed trains, we can get there in an hour and a half, and my house in Beidaihe is quite close to the train station. So, with just a little bit longer than your daily commute time to go to work, you’re already there. We often leave on Saturday morning, my kid can do his homework on the train, and here we are. Then we head back to Beijing on Sunday evening. No time was wasted. I didn’t even feel anything, and we already finished traveling more than 350 kilometers.

[MUSIC]

TM: Coming up, we’ll hear how train travel in the U.S. could get better soon. That’s next, on Peak Travel.

[MIDROLL BREAK]

[MUSIC]

TM: This is Peak Travel. I’m Tariro Mzezewa.

Unlike Ice and Aowen’s trip, Michaela and Nicole’s journey didn’t go according to plan.

MW: It is just about 7 p.m. on Sunday. For those keeping track at home, you might remember that we were supposed to get to our final stop at around 1 p.m. on Sunday. So you could say that it’s later than that.
NN: Yeah, it feels later. And I mean, like, when you look at it, “Oh, whatever, a couple more hours,” but…
MW: Six hours.
NN: Yeah, which, it’s a lot. It feels like a lot.

[MUSIC]

TM: This isn’t all that uncommon in the U.S. In just three months last year, Amtrak trains were delayed more than 1.4 million minutes. In total, that’s over two and a half years late, mostly because they were stuck waiting behind the freight trains that own the tracks.

SH: In the long run, it would be amazing to see a high-speed rail system in the U.S. But even providing, you know, medium-speed rail that was very reliable, lots of people would choose that.

TM: There are plans to improve the system.

[ANNOUNCEMENT FROM U.S. PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN]

JOE BIDEN: When I ran for president, I made a commitment to build a world-class, high-speed rail, worthy of the United States of America. By the way, China’s had trains going 220 miles an hour for a while now. At long last, we’re building the first high-speed rail project in our nation’s history, and it’s starting here.

[APPLAUSE]

TM: U.S. President Joe Biden, whose love of train travel earned him the nickname “Amtrak Joe,” has promised a $66 billion investment in rail — the largest since Amtrak was created.

WV: There’s a new, high-speed train set coming online next year on the corridor that will operate from Boston to Washington. So there is some progress. There’s a lot of funding in the pipeline.

SH: The fact that we have significant federal funding for the first time in decades for rail, it really does present a big opportunity for rail to help give people the choice to leave their car at home.

WV: The question is, how long is that going to last? Because to run a passenger railroad is very capital intensive and very labor intensive. The Northeast Corridor itself has a, I would say, a backlog of probably $20 to 30 billion in investment.

[SOUNDS OF TRAIN CAR]

TM: If it all works out, Americans could finally have access to the kind of bonding that’s hard to get when we’re all commuting in our own cars.

[CONDUCTOR OVER PA ANNOUNCEMENT]

CONDUCTOR: …Folks the Lower Gore Canyon is one of my favorites…

MW: The craziest part of the Colorado River, and I, like, should have known it was coming, ’cause the conductor got on the loudspeaker and was like, “We’re about to go to Moon River.”

CONDUCTOR: …And follow along the Moon River…

MW: Moon river, that’s crazy. [Laughter]

CONDUCTOR: …And if you didn’t see it before the tunnel, you most certainly will after, as it starts cutting its way into a sheer granite cliffside. Unlike its older brother, the Upper Gore Canyon…

MW: So you go through, and it’s, like, all these people on the river in this one section, they’re taking their pants down and, like, just mooning the train.

MW: We really got mooned.
NN: We really did. [Laugher]

MW: And it’s a thing! Like, it’s a thing that people do.

[VIDEO OF PEOPLE MOONING THE AMTRAK TRAIN]

PERSON: 1, 2, 3, go! Woohoo!

[SOUND OF TRAIN HORN HONKING]

MW: I thought that was really cool, because it’s like, even though it’s kind of gross, it’s also kind of wholesome. And it’s just, like, this way that the train is integrated into the community.

[MUSIC]

MW: The feeling that I left this trip with was, like, almost — and I’m embarrassed to say it a little bit — almost a sense of, like, patriotism for the United States. Because it’s like, it’s really rare that you get the opportunity to see all of these communities in one shot. You get to, like, in your own way, sort of connect with them, hear about them through the conductor, like, wave to the people who are along the side of the tracks. And, I mean, you see so many amazing things. You see, like, the lakes in Northern California that are really beautiful. The mountains in Utah are gorgeous. They’re like orange and pink. I had never seen, like, a land feature that was that color. And of course, going through the Rockies, going through, like, along the Colorado River, all of that is stunning. And the whole time you’re, like, seeing people, and seeing, kind of, like, how they live their lives, passing through their local train stations. It’s, like, really a beautiful experience in that way, where you get to be connected to so many people and so many types of communities in the country. The fact that we don’t have train travel or high-speed train travel widely available to people, the fact that we’ve underfunded it so that it’s unreliable and expensive and hard to use, it’s a disservice, because it’s such a cool way to see so much of the country in one shot, and to learn about it and experience it and feel it.

RP: There’s all kinds of good stuff down here, and it’s been a pleasure serving each and every one of you. You’ve been a great crowd, folks. Thank you so much for riding Amtrak. I hope you ride the train soon, and I get a chance to take care of you on another trip, on another day. Again, thank you for riding with us. This is your favorite lounge car attendant, Rod Pasko, signing off one final time, folks. Thank you, and thank you for riding Amtrak.

[SOUND OF TRAIN HORN BLARING]

[THEME MUSIC]

TM: Next time, on Peak Travel, we experience the wonders of the African continent.

ARI BASKIN: You’ve got the Indian Ocean, the massive stretches of it on the Kenyan coast. South Africa has so much from, like, mountains to sea to desert. It has everything.

TM: And investigate why it’s so much easier for Americans and Europeans to travel there than it is for Africans themselves.

TIYANI MAJOKO: It feels like an absolute, like, you know, circus. When my American friends say that they want to go to Johannesburg, oh, they just need to spend money for the air ticket and that’s it.

TM: How did this inequality start, and why does it persist to this day?

EMMANUEL IDUMA: It’s, I think, part of the larger question about Blackness in the world.

POPI SIBIYA: I think it is actually designed that Africans don’t have access to each other, because the more access we have to each other, the more power we hold, when we are unified, when we are united.

TM: That’s next time, on Peak Travel.

This is Peak Travel. I’m your host, Tariro Mzezewa.

Our executive producer is Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa. We had production help on this episode from Aowen Cao.

Our editor is Meg Driscoll. Original music, mixing and sound design by Catherine Anderson. Engineering by Al Banks, Charlie Kaier, Diana Martinez, and Mike Villers. Our tile art was created by Nick Rogacki.

Special thanks to Courtney Lin, the voice actor who helped bring this episode to life.

Peak Travel is a production of WHYY, distributed by PRX, and part of the NPR podcast network. Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeart Radio app — or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Executive Producer: Tom Grahsler
Senior Producer: Michael Olcott
Producer: Michaela Winberg
Associate Producer: Bibiana Correa
Additional Production: Aowen Cao
Editor: Meg Driscoll
Original Music, Mixing, and Sound Design: Catherine Anderson
Engineers: Al Banks, Charlie Kaier, Diana Martinez, and Mike Villers
Tile Art: Nick Rogacki

Special thanks to Courtney Lin, the voice actor who helped bring this episode to life.

Peak Travel is a production of WHYY, distributed by PRX, and part of the NPR podcast network.

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