Shayla Smith Scored More Points Than Wilt Chamberlain

DAVID GREENE, HOST: Hey everybody, this is Sports in America. I am David Greene, and we are gonna be hearing a lot in the coming days about the Final Four. You’re probably gonna be hearing a lot of friends saying they are just so psyched to watch college basketball. Now, for a long, long time, if you heard that, you might’ve assumed that that meant men’s college basketball, which is a problem. A big problem. It’s a problem for a lot of people, including the person that I am with right now, Jackie Johnston, Coach Jackie J. If you know her on social media, she is a women’s sports content creator, and has a lot of thoughts about how we should be labeling men’s college basketball and women’s college basketball and why the distinction is so important. Coach Jackie J. Thank you for being here to help us set up final four weekend.

JACKIE JOHNSTON: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s one of the best weekends of the year.

DG: I love it.

JJ: Nothing better. I started doing this like three years ago, and I really started it off the 2023 Final Four in March Madness because I was a senior at LSU, and then that’s when the LSU women’s basketball team won the championship. It’s one of the best like weekends and days of my life. It was so cool. And I’ve been kind of riding that high and turning it into content for the last couple of years. So it’s always just the best season. And it happens to be right when, you know, the NWSL is usually kicking off, and then we get the draft for the WNBA just like not even a week after the Final Four. It’s always so quick. So, this is the part of the year where just things start rolling for women’s sports. It’s just the best.

DG: Yeah. You’re totally right. It’s so funny. Like when March Madness starts, I always think that it’s opening weekend that is so fun because you just have like that massive slate of games like all over the place.

JJ: So many games to watch.

DG: It’s like, yeah, it’s like noon. You can watch a game. Yeah, Final Four really is when it heats up. And yeah, like, I mean, listening to you talk about, you know, how much women’s sports means to you, I’d love to hear you talk about that distinction I was just mentioning because you’ve made some videos about this and talked about how even looking at like a cable television or streaming lineup, when you see it just say college basketball and then women’s college basketball, that speaks to a problem.

JJ: Absolutely. I think that it’s something that women’s sports fans have noticed and not really said anything about for years, is constantly being othered in the sports space. And I always said it’s not about erasing the women in front of women’s college basketball. I like that distinction because, for me, I love women’s sports. So I want to see that it’s women’s college basketball, and I’ll click on it. But the fact that it’s not men’s college basketball, too, is so mind-blowing to me. And even the like you know, men’s sports leagues that have an M the title, you know, like, I think it should be the MNBA and the WNBA. And people always think I’m joking, and I’m not joking. That’s just what I really think. And it makes the most sense to me so we don’t have this kind of idea that one is the standard and one is the different part that the subculture, you know, like they should both be their distinct own thing. But you think about like the MLB, the M doesn’t stand for men, it stands for major.

DG: Right.

JJ: Like it’s just an interesting thing that you just would never have that in a woman’s pro league. The woman’s W is always there and I like that, but I also think we gotta start adding the M and yeah, I’ve said this online so many times and truly, I mean, I’m no stranger to the ways that a lot of men in sports get upset about the things that I tend to say, but this time around, they were really mad and I’m just like, really sit with yourself and think why this is making you so uncomfortable that I’m saying it should be called the MNBA. It was like a very hard pill for them to swallow. It’s very interesting.

DG: Hmm. What were some of the reactions, and what did you make of them? Like, where were they coming from do you think?

JJ: You know, I think it comes from insecurity. I think there is so much talk around the W right now and how it’s growing so fast. And the business side of it is just expanding in such an incredible way. They just had that CBA signed, and, you know, they’re going to have WNBA players making millions of dollars off their salary for the first time ever, which is incredible. And I think that makes people who enjoy and only watch men’s sports start to feel a little bit insecure and start to feel like the sports space that’s been theirs and that has been theirs only for so long. And they’ve been able to kind of move through the sports world, blissfully ignoring women’s sports for so long. And now that’s just not possible. Like we’re not making that possible anymore. You know, I make a big effort in my life to blissfully ignore men’s sports. And it’s a bit of an effort sometimes because it’s kind of everywhere, especially as a sports creator. You get a lot of people saying, “Well, you talk about this, talk about that.” Like, no, I only want to talk about women’s sports. And I think that the men are now realizing that they’re getting a taste of that. That’s like their own medicine a little bit, that like, hey, this is a world that we’re both in together.

DG: Tell me why you ignore men’s sports. What got you so focused on women’s sports to a point where it’s like, is all I really want to focus on.

JJ: So I grew up playing women’s soccer, girls’ soccer. I was on an all-boys German soccer team. I was the only girl as a kid. My dad always made an effort of, my mom too, but like my dad really was into soccer. And so we’d watch, you know, Premier League and Arsenal and like men’s soccer growing up. But he always would put on the women’s soccer too, whatever he could find. And the US women’s national team was my favorite team. And you know, in my house, we also watched a lot of football. We watched, it was a sports house, we watched a lot of different stuff, and that was great. And then when I left and got to college, I realized that I had the remote in my hand. And at that point, it was my laptop and not a TV, but I could choose what I wanted to watch myself. And I thought, well, if I’m in charge, I’d like to only watch women’s sports all the time forever. And in kind of just genuinely pushing back on the way that so many people do that, but just with men’s sports, and they don’t care about women’s sports. It started, really, I think, a bit of me just being like, I want to prove this, that this is just how I’m going to be. And then I think about six months into my freshman year of waking up every morning and watching women’s soccer and then watching, you know, going to the campus women’s beach volleyball game and kind of just surrounding myself with women’s sports, it quickly turned into, this isn’t about proving anybody wrong. It’s just about, I love this. And I am so happy that this is my life, and this is like a secret thing that I’ve discovered is like so fun and so exciting. And it’s a world where the fans are so, you know, queer and interesting and cool people. And that’s something I’ve always known since I was in high school. But when I really surrounded myself only with women’s sports, I just, my quality of life went soaring. (Laughs)

DG: I love that.

JJ: And so it’s not about proving people wrong anymore. It’s about just knowing that you just want to have a good time and that women’s sports is the place to do that.

DG: Well, I do want to set up the Final Four weekend. Before we do that, I just want to kind of pause on one thing you mentioned. There’s this new collective bargaining agreement in the WNBA for so many years. I mean, there was just this reality that the WNBA players just, you know, there was not pay equity with the MNBA and forcing a lot of…

JJ: Yeah. Thank you, there we go.

DG: Yeah, there you go. You got me going. And you would see players like Brittney Griner and others have to go abroad to countries like Russia, where she got into so much trouble, you know, to just make money and play in the off-season. Are we now at a moment where you, as someone who follows the sport, can say like WNBA players are paying what they deserve? How big a moment is this?

JJ: You know, I think that we’re never, I never want to say, oh, this is it. They’ve finally been paid what they deserve, which I think they’re getting closer than they’ve ever been before to being paid what they deserve. Obviously, if we compare that to the salary of any man in professional sports, it’s not, it’s not up to par yet. And that’s tough. If you think about the place that the MNBA was at this point and the place that the WNBA is in this point, and I’m talking about from when it was created to however many years it is into being a league, the men in the MNBA were being paid a higher rev share than the women got in this last CBA. I think they were at 50% at this point, and the women are settling about 20\. And that was a hard-fought battle to get that 20\. So it’s still not exactly where we wanna be, but to talk about that, I also wanna say it’s historic in a way that words can’t even describe. This is life-changing money. This is something that so many WNBA players have always deserved. One thing that’s really cool in the CBA is they are back paying to players that were in the league and have been in it and didn’t get paid what they deserve. Part of the new CBA gives them a sum of money, which I think is really, really cool because it says, hey, we would not be here without all of you. And that’s going to be true of this group, too. We’re going to see four or five years from now that women’s sports will be absolutely soaring. And this CBA and this particular moment will be a huge reason because of that on the backs of these players. And I know that they’re being paid so much right now and that truly, not even a decade later, we’re going to see that it’s going to pale in comparison to what they’re making.

DG: Let’s talk about Final Four weekend.

JJ: Yes.

DG: To me, one of the massive storylines is UConn, the University of Connecticut. For people who don’t realize their women’s team, I mean, trying to repeat as champions, they have been absolutely dominant. They have a star, Azzi Fudd, who decided to come back for another year instead of going to the WNBA, and now she’s going to be playing for a title this weekend. But the men’s team from UConn, I don’t think anyone expected them to beat

Duke and they, I mean, won in one of the most like ridiculously shocking endings to beat Duke and make it into the men’s Final Four. I think one of the really touching moments to me was this video that we all saw of the women’s team.

JJ: Yeah.

DG: I mean, they were the favorites, they had already made it in, they were moving on to the Final Four. I don’t think they expected the men from their school to also be joining them in Final Four weekend and just the elation in the hotel room watching the women’s team just like, you know, just cheering on the men from their school is really, really powerful.

JJ: I also love this kind of like, it kind of turns the stereotype a bit backwards because like I told, I said, I don’t watch men’s sports, and I only know about that incredible moment because I saw the video of the UConn players reacting about it.

DG: That video. Yeah. Yeah.

JJ: And then I went, that’s interesting. And then I looked it up and watched that final play, and it was incredible. And you know, I love a big dramatic moment like that. So it was great, but I can’t even tell you the amount of times that something has happened in women’s sports. And the story has been that the men care about it. And it’s interesting that men care. So for UConn to have this women’s basketball team that is undefeated going into a championship that’s really theirs to lose, and for the headline to be their reacting to the men winning and it’s a big deal they won because no one thought they would. It makes me so happy. It’s kind of a very interesting like spin on what typically happens, and yeah, it’s a good time to be a Husky, that’s for sure.

DG: Yeah, no, that was a feeling I had too, like they’re the powerhouse, and it’s like, okay, guys, you made it too, you can come along, and we’re really happy for you.

JJ: Exactly.

DG: How would you set up this weekend in the women’s bracket in the Final Four for people who might not follow college basketball that closely?

JJ: Yeah, if you’re not following, I’d say that we have the four 1-seeds in the Final Four. So these are the four teams that have been the best all year. We knew they were going to be the best coming into this. And really, they’ve all had a pretty easy time getting into this Final Four. There’s been a few hiccups, but pretty much smooth sailing to get there. So it’s UCLA, Texas, they’ll be playing each other. And then UConn, South Carolina will be playing each other. For UCLA, Texas, what you need to know about the UCLA team is it’s five seniors who are starting. They’re a very, very senior team. They’ve been here, they want it, and they’re all graduating, so it’s heavy for them. Texas is just defensively very strong, and they have a playing style that I really enjoy. And I have Texas beating UCLA, but I really do think it could go either way. And that’s that matchup, but the one that everyone’s really, really focused on, I believe, is South Carolina, UConn, because that is a rematch of last year’s championship.

DG: Yeah.

JJ: So last year South Carolina met UConn the championship, and then UConn and Paige Becker’s at her senior year got that win. It was very dramatic, and it was pretty easy. I would say for a championship that UConn pretty much ran away with that, which is strange because South Carolina is, you know, a really dominant women’s basketball team. They’ve coached by Dawn Staley, who’s just an absolute legend, and you never expect South Carolina to lose, but unfortunately, this year they’re coming into this game as underdogs. UConn is just so good. I think yesterday, after the South Carolina won in the Elite Eight and qualified for the Final Four, Dawn Staley said, “We’re just hoping that UConn has an off day.” Because that’s, I mean, she’s being real.

DG: That’s the only way. Yeah.

JJ: That’s realistic because that’s the only way they’ll win. South Carolina needs to play the best they’ve ever played, and UConn needs to be bad for it to go South Carolina’s way. If UConn plays a mediocre game, they could win. My dad is like a huge South Carolina fan, and he’s adamant that Dawn Staley doesn’t lose to the same team twice. And he’s like, she’s going to have a fantastic, she’s going to have this great plan going into this, and she knows she’s going to do something differently. It’s pretty much the same team, and it really is. But even Dawn’s being realistic. She wants this for her team, but it’s going to be difficult one to beat UConn, and yeah, Azzi Fudd, Sarah Strong is, I think, going to be one of the best players to ever play period when she gets to the league. She’s just going to be incredible. So I could talk about it all day, but Final Four is gonna be so, so exciting this year because if anything besides UConn winning happens, it’ll be crazy.

DG: You brought up a name, Dawn Staley, coach of the University of South Carolina women’s basketball team. I’ve been thinking about her a lot because of the conversation that we’re about to hear on our episode today. I mean, she had a legendary basketball career in the city of Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a basketball city…

JJ: Absolutely.

DG: Where a lot of great basketball players scored a lot of points on the court, including a guy named Wilt Chamberlain. I actually got to talk to Shayla Smith, who is young woman as a high school basketball player, set the scoring record for the city of Philadelphia, which is insane.

JJ: Incredible.

DG: Yeah, now she’s playing for Penn State, but god, extraordinary story. She was doing a lot to get me even deeper into women’s basketball, women’s sports like you. So, I might, thanks to you, thanks to her, I might be going in your direction. (Laughs).

JJ: Absolutely. And Philly is so up right now. I mean, I think in 2030, they’ll have their WNBA team. They just opened a women’s sports bar in Philly. We just had Unrivaled in Philly, which was a new league, three-on-three league founded by Breanna Stewart and Napheesa Collier. And it was the most people ever in that arena in Philly. And I was there, truly electric, one of my favorite sports experiences of the year. And yeah, I left just thinking, my goodness, the Philadelphia sports energy is undeniable.

DG: I am totally with you. Coach Jackie J, real pleasure talking to you. I can’t thank you enough.

JJ: Thank you so much. I love women’s sports.

DG: There we go. And coming up next, we’re going to hear a conversation with Shayla Smith.

Welcome back to Sports in America. I’m David Greene.

So we just talked to Coach Jackie about what to expect in the women’s NCAA finals this weekend. But what does it take for an athlete who is still just a kid to make that leap from high school basketball to college and the national stage? Well, now I want to tell you the story of a college athlete before she made her way to NCAA hoops. Her name is Shayla Smith, and we sat down with her and her coach, Kevin Slaughter together to discuss her basketball journey. To introduce you to Shayla, I’ve got to take us back in time just a little bit.

[MUSIC]

DG: The year 2021, and we are in South Philadelphia at a neighborhood high school called Universal Audenried Charter School. Now, Audenried wasn’t flashy. It was a public school, but it was considered underperforming for so long that it was taken over by a charter school. It also wasn’t seen as a basketball powerhouse. The girls’ team had a losing record for years, but Coach Slaughter was trying to change that.

KEVIN SLAUGHTER: The team I took over, they were like 3-16 when I got there. They had never won a playoff game in the school’s history.

DG: Then he got a call from an old teammate that would shape the future of his program.

KS: So he called me and he said, “Hey, Kev, I got a kid that can like really change your program.”

DG: Wow.

KS: And I’m like, nah, get out of here. He’s like, “Nah, she’s really good, but I think she needs someone like yourself to bring more out of her. I think you can get like the best out of her.” So I couldn’t make this one particular practice that they had. And I told Coach Marcellus, I said, “Look, go up to this practice. This kid, Shayla Smith is going to be there playing. Let me know what you think.” So he called me that night and he’s super excited and he was like, “Kev, we gotta get her.” And I’m like, okay, fine, but we have this coming in, we have that coming in. And he’s like, “Listen, I understand you’re big on these transfers that are coming in.” He said, “But, we got to get this eighth grade kid.” So I asked him about another kid from the city who we knew that was her same age. And I was big on this kid and I’m like, “Is she better than her?” He’s like, “Way better.” I’m, like, what?

DG: This girl whose reputation seemed to precede her, she was Shayla Smith, just 13 years old at the time, in eighth grade, and she lived across the city from Audenried in North Philly. Sure, she liked sports growing up, but she was mostly just playing around with her brothers. Then, when she started basketball, something clicked.

SS: I played for my middle school in seventh grade, and that was when I realized I was good, because I grew up playing against all boys, so then when I finally started playing against girls, it was like, oh, I’m actually good. So then in seventh, my season got cut short in seventh because of COVID. So then I didn’t play at all until eighth grade, winter. I played in this little league with one of my teammates now, Raina. We played together that winter, and then that summer, that was my first time taking in this series playing AAU.

DG: Okay, so hang on, so you’re playing with the boys and you’re, you were probably good.

SS: Yeah, I was good, but they were better than me. Nah, I think I was better than them, honestly, but they still was boys, so it’s always gonna be different.

DG: And then tell me when did you first play against girls?

SS: Seventh grade.

DG: Seventh grade. Okay. And what did it feel like? Like, what was the feeling of realizing how good you are?

SS: I was just excited, I was happy that I was good at it and me being good at it, it made me just want to be the best at it, I just wanted to keep getting better.

DG: Were you like a scoring machine then?

SS: Yeah. I score all the points in my middle school. Like, in the games, I score a lot of points. Maybe, like, somebody else would have, like five, and then I would have like 25, and we would win 30 to, like 10 or something like that.

DG: As middle school came to a close, Shayla had a big decision to make. Which high school was she gonna play for? Coach Slaughter threw his hat in the ring.

KS: Well, I called her mom and asked her mom, could I set up a tour for the school? And the mom said, “Sure, you can set a tour up.”

DG: This is Shayla’s mom?

KS: Shayla’s mother, yeah. And her dad and mom couldn’t make the tour that day, but Shayla still wanted to come. So I told her, I said, “Bring some basketball stuff with you.” And we did a tour to school. And yes, I did tell her that, you know, I’m gonna put the ball in your hand. And my, one of my players who graduated maybe three years prior, she was in college playing Division 1 basketball. So she came with us and gave the tour and was giving Shayla some, you know, just advice about if you were to come to Audenried, what I would do with my assistants and how we treat players. And she kept telling her like, “You know Coach Slaughter is gonna let you get busy. He’s gonna put you in a situation where it’s not gonna be like, hey, you’re a freshman, you gotta wait your turn. Like if you’re really good, he’s gonna play you as if you are a senior or a junior.” And we left the interview kind of like, really confident that she liked it, but we still had to play basketball.

[MUSIC]

[BASKETBALL DRIBBLING]

KS: So we played basketball. They played about five games one-on-one. And I believe that Denisha beat her every game, but she was playing serious. And at the time, Shayla was 13\. She was 13 years old, and the kid was 21 years old.

DG: You’re playing one-on-one against a 21-year-old?

KS: Yeah. Yep. And one game, I think the worst score was like 7-2, but every other game was like 7-5 7-4\. And then Shayla almost beat her one of the games. It was like 7-6\. And when Shayla was putting her sneakers on, getting ready to leave, the kid came to me and she said, “Slaughter, I was playing for real.” I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “Well, when I first got out there, I’m not playing hard. I’m a college kid. This kid’s…” She said, “But by the third or fourth game, she started really playing serious. Because she was like, if I don’t play serious, this kid will beat me”. So that was it right there. I don’t tell that story a lot, but it’s true. A 13-year-old played five or six games versus a 21-year old. And the 21- year old so happened to be the greatest player in our school’s history before she got there. So it was like fitting. It was full circle for me.

DG: That’s gotta be a confidence builder to be nearly beating a 21 year old who’s trying this hard.

SS: I didn’t know how old she was. I didn’t know she was 21.

KS: Yeah, she didn’t really know her.

SS: I didn’t know her at all, I don’t know nobody in the city for real basketball wise.

KS: Yeah, Shayla didn’t know her. It wasn’t like Shayla looked up to her or anything. She didn’t know who she was. So that, again though, that still, she didn’t know that the kid was on TV and playing basketball. I think she was a first team all Big South Conference. She went to South Carolina Upstate. That was the name of the school she was at. And then the year that Shayla got to us, that next year she transferred to Delaware State.

DG: Shayla, I want to follow up on some of you were saying, like you didn’t know some of these players in basketball, like are you saying that other girls who were coming up and like getting ready to play basketball were sort of more like obsessed with who’s playing where and stuff like that, and that that was less interesting to you at that time?

SS: I mean, yeah, like it was like everybody, like, you know, basketball, everybody knows each other. So like when I was coming, like when I first started playing, everybody already knew each other, like all the eighth graders, they all knew. Oh, I’m going to high school so I can play with this person, that person. I didn’t know none of that. All I knew is that I wanted to play basketball. So, yeah.

DG: And did that put you at a disadvantage? Like, did you feel like you were kind of an outsider coming in?

SS: Yeah it did feel like that kinda, I’m not gonna lie, it did. Like especially seeing on social media, like everybody already being like cool and all that. It was like, yeah, nobody really knows me.

DG: Was that part of the draw to Audenried? Like it felt like a family that was not making you feel like an outsider? Like Coach Slaughter was welcoming you.

SS: Yeah, for sure.

DG: Okay, so when did you start at Audenried?

SS: Ninth grade.

DG: Okay, and you could have gone to other schools, right? I mean, there were other schools. Private schools around Philly who were…

SS: Yeah, a couple other schools in the city. Like, I didn’t grow up playing basketball, so like a lot of high schools didn’t really know about me. It was a few that knew and like was recruiting me. But like, I was spending a lot time with Audenried, at Audenried, working out with them. So, it was like a relationship, building a relationship.

DG: Tell me more about the relationship. Like what felt like a relationship with Audenried compared to other schools?

SS: They just had me in the gym every summer and they believed in me. Slaughter told me that he was going to put the ball in my hands from the beginning. Any eighth grader coming into high school wants to hear that. They’re going to be the main player as a freshman, that’s big. I was like, that really made me consider Audenried.

DG: Did you feel pressure when Coach was seeing you as someone who he was gonna put the ball in your hands from day one?

SS: No, I didn’t see pressure, I was happy actually. I was excited. I don’t really like, I don’t let pressure get to me. I don’t even see. I don’s understand how people let pressure get to them.

DG: What do you mean by that? That’s really impressive.

SS: I don’t really know how to explain it, it’s just like, if people see you like a certain way, or like they expect they have high expectations of you, you don’t have, like if you don’t meet those expectations, it’s not like, it’ not that deep. I just don’t think it’s that serious.

DG: I feel like this is such an interesting moment in a relationship between a coach and a player because you’re thinking in your mind, like here’s a young woman who can change my basketball program, but you’re not gonna put that pressure onto her like at that point.

KS: You know what’s funny is, if you don’t mind me speaking on it?

DG: Please.

KS: Is that, uh, I’m just like, people take it the wrong way. Like I’m bragging or they take it the wrong, like I’m boasting, but I call it pumping my kids up. You know what I mean? And Shayla, like I said, she, we met her like that March, April, and we wind up going to like some summer leagues that summer, cause mind you, she still didn’t walk into our school yet. She’s just playing with the team. And I remember her first high school game she played with us, the first time she played. Well, it was the first like tournament. We were in Allentown and she had one point. And I thought that was gonna discourage her. I really did. And I’m like, ah, she didn’t come out the, you know. But it had nothing to do with her skill. It was just 13 year old kid playing with 17, 18 year old kids. And we just kept at it. And I’m going around town on Instagram, social media, talking about this kid I got coming in. And everybody was like, who is he talking about? Who is this kid he’s bragging about? Who is he? It was that kind of thing, and nobody really believed me. And then that October, we played in a fall tournament. That was, it was a big fall tournament with a lot of really good teams from like Bucks County, Montgomery County, Delaware County, and she went off. She, she, she went crazy. I think she averaged like 34 points.

DG: Wow.

KS: Yeah, that’s when you had that music video.

SS: Oh, yeah.

DG: What was the music video?

SS: Like the mixtape.

[MUSIC]

[WHISTLE BLOWS]

SS: That was my first ever mixtape.

KS: Yeah, they gave her like a video of her just going crazy on a…

DG: At the tournament?

KS: At the tournament. Yeah, we played like, like Dauphin County or like Upper Dublin or something. It was like one of those schools like that.

[BUZZER]

KS: We’re playing like schools way out. And she just she went off. She went crazy. So that video like had like 6, 7,000 views. And people was like, wow, this kid really is good. But nobody had knew her, they’d never seen her play. So when Shayla came, I was thinking, okay, now it’s our chance to be a Public League Champion. You know, we just gotta get her some pieces, get some teammates, you know. But it was hard for me to sell that to anybody. But then after Shayla’s freshman year and her AAU summer, it kinda like opened a lot of eyes. A lot of people was like, oh, they’re doing something special over there. So now looking back at it. You know, what I said to her wound up coming true, but I didn’t even think it would’ve happened the way it happened. I didn’t think she was gonna be this dominant.

DG: And it sounds like it goes beyond dominance. Your teammates talk about you as being so impactful on them and their game. And I wonder if you feel that from the other side, like that you are, you know, helping them along, inspiring them, like what that relationship feels like to you.

SS: Oh yeah, definitely. I helped them, they helped me too though, because it’s games where I be out of it sometimes, I be in my head thinking too much, and they’ll tell me, “Yo Shay, we need you, you gotta come on.” If I’m not doing good, then the whole team’s not doing it good. If I’m thinking too much the whole teams thinking too much. If I got my head down or I’m giving up, the whole time is gonna do the same thing. So I just always gotta keep my head high. Even if I don’t feel confident in myself, So I have to show confidence still. So that my team can have the same energy.

DG: When you’re going off and like you’re a scoring machine in a game, what, what does that feel like? Like, or do you get into a groove? Like you’re kicking it into some gear and you can feel like hit, hit every shot right now.

[MUSIC]

SS: Yeah, it’s like, the flow state. People call it the flow state is like when you’re..

DG: That’s Kobe’s, that’s Kobe Bryant’s thing, right?

SS: Yeah, Kobe calls it the flow state.

KOBE BRYANT: Because the next play is imminent, you’re here. So the most important thing is really standing in the moment and staying present. I mean that’s all the zone is. What that really means is that you’re simply here in the present, and the only thing that matters is what’s right in front of you. And the trick is, how do you do that?

SS: I watch a lot of Kobe Bryant so I like used to watch YouTube videos and stuff about the flow state and like how you just like you just be in the moment and just like let everything be natural. And like I’m getting better at like just knowing how to turn that on like just know how to automatically come out on the floor in the flow state. So yeah, it’s the flow state. It doesn’t feel like anything it’s just like you’re just playing.

DG: So it’s almost like an out of body experience. I mean, it’s, you’re just like, you’re almost watching yourself. Like you’re not living it. Like, what does it feel like?

SS: I don’t know, I can’t explain it, it’s just like, you just gotta know, like you know, it is a feeling, it’s not really a thought, like it’s no thoughts. It’s just, you’re just going, you’re just being, you’re just playing.

DG: Can you tell when she gets in the flow state? Coach, like in a certain game?

KS: Yes, actually, I almost interrupted because I can name three or four different times when I can feel it. I can fell what you’re asking her, what does it feel like? I can feel it. We were in Virginia a couple years back and we played against a team from South Carolina and I could tell she was warming up. She was doing really well and she passed me, dribbling up the floor and I yelled, “Go ahead, take the shot. I don’t care where you shoot it from.”

DG: We can shoot from here, wherever.

KS: True, true story. She passed me, half court was right here. She took about three steps past half court and she just launched it. Nothing but net.

[MUSIC]

DG: So you just, you could tell that she’s going to hit anything in the state that she was in.

KS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes people get mad at me because there’s certain people around town who they try to look me in the face with a straight face and say they’re not hating or they’re not trying to put us down with what we do. But they’ll say things like, “Oh Slaughter doesn’t really coach her. He just lets her go out there and do whatever she wants.” But that’s not, that’s so far from the truth. It’s just that if I see a mismatch or I see her in her in her flow state, I’ll call a play we call One Four. And it’s like four players at the bottom of the basket and everybody’s out of her way and it’s just her and that player. Or we’ll call something called Four Corners. And it’s like everything’s spread out. And it’s just like her and that player and of course they still try to send double teams, but I’m undefeated with that play. I’ve never seen anybody stop her. Not a person, maybe a referee, maybe like a coach might have tried to design a defense. But I’ve never seen one human being stay in front of her and stop her from scoring a basketball.

DG: And why would people at other schools criticize that? Criticize a coach for putting a star player in the best position to succeed.

KS: Well, because we didn’t do it the way that everybody else does it. We didn’t do it the the way, like most great players from this city, unless you’re like in the 70s or the 80s, like where you had to go like your neighborhood schools and stuff like that, but most great players in the last 15, 20 years, especially girls, they go to like private schools.

[MUSIC]

KS: They got to Catholic schools.They go to like friends schools. There was a guy one time who said to someone, why would she go to Audenried? Like who would send their kid to Audenried? A kid that good? Why would they send her there? Almost to say that we don’t deserve a player like that.

DG: That’s terrible.

KS: Yeah, well that’s what was being said. And there were people, like especially after we proved them wrong the first year, when her freshman year was over. That’s when all the recruiting came. Because her eighth grade year, if I’m not mistaken, when I was looking around to see what was my competition, it was just Imhotep and Cheltenham, far as I know. But then once I started putting videos out about her, we started working her out, and then she was playing AAU for her AAU team, then people started watching. And then some of the other schools came around. And then after her freshman year, that’s when some of private schools came to her mom or dad and was like, why don’t you take her out of Audenried and bring her over here? Or take her here and let’s do this, let’s do that. I mean, and again, Shayla could have made a decision. Her parents could have made a decision, but I really think the way that me and Coach Marcellus trained her and spent hours and hours of the work, she really likes to work. So.

DG: Were you or your parents ever tempted to move you to a different school?

SS: Yeah, a couple times, almost every year, honestly. But it’s just like, I just trust the process, you know? I just trust the work that I put in, and I just know like, and the results were coming too, so it’s not like I wasn’t getting what I deserved. When I started to think deeper into it, I just like I went with my, like, I go with my how I feel, I go off of vibes, and I felt like I should stay at Audenried.

DG: We’ll have more with Shayla Smith and her coach, Kevin Slaughter, coming up next on Sports in America.

This is Sports in America. Here’s more from our conversation with Philadelphia basketball star Shayla Smith and her coach, Kevin Slaughter.

Well, I want to ask you both about two moments. The first was when you broke the all time scoring record in girls basketball in Philadelphia. You blew through 2,500 career points. Can you take me to that game, that gym? Like what was the setting? Like paint a picture for me.

SS: We played at a school that I usually would only like play the first half, like, cause you know, public league is not that good. So like, most of the time we played public league schools, I would just get 20 points in like a half and then I would sit the rest of the game.

DG: Just to like rest in a game that matters the most.

SS: Yeah, and just like everybody that doesn’t usually get a chance to play just let all the bench players play and all that. So I usually would do that when we play the public league school. But this day we was in school Slaughter was like “Yo, you’re gonna get the record today.” I’m like, “What, how far am I?” Cuz I wasn’t keeping track of it. I was trying to like not think about it. Slaughter. was like “You gonna get it today you 47 points away.” I’m like, “You think I’m gonna get 47 today? I’m not even gonna play the whole game.” He’s like “No you’re going to play the whole game. You gonna get 47 points.” I’m, like, all right, if I don’t get it, I don’t get it. If I get it, I get it. So I just went out there and I just like… Oh, also, Senaya Parker didn’t even play that game. 50 didn’t play. So I had to kind of make up for her, too. Her scoring, too, because she’s our second-leading scorer, right?

KS: Yeah.

SS: Yeah, so had to make up her, too. But we knew we were going to win the game. And that school said they were gonna hold me under 10 points, right? (Laughs)

KS: So the coach, so the coach started something…

DG: The other coach said they were going to hold her to under 10 points?

KS: So what happened was…

DG: Oh, that’s a way to motivate you, probably.

KS: Yeah, yeah, so we weren’t going to play her the whole game at first and then once Senaya had to leave and then the coach openly said, “Hey, she’s not breaking no record on us today.”

SS: “She ain’t getting over 10 points.”

KS: “She’s not getting over 10.”

SS: He told me he told me they said them like what now I’m getting 50

DG: Oh come on, did that coach realize what they were doing? Like…

KS: Yeah, he said that.

DG: But like probably motivating you to get the record against that?

SS: Yeah.

KS: Yeah, and she got the record with four minutes left. It was four minutes left in the game, and somebody said to me, “No, just leave her in, let her get 50 points so she can break the school record, which is 49 for girls and 50 for boys.” And I said, “Nah.” I said “We don’t do that.” I said actually, “I’m gonna have some sportsmanship.” We were already up like 30 points. And I was like,”Wwe’re taking her out. She got the records, we’ll let it go.”

DG: And what did, did it sink in immediately that you had set that record? Like what did it feel like?

[CHEERING]

SS: It felt like how it felt when I scored a thousand points and like, cause like my whole team, like they came and like they celebrated with me on the court. It called a timeout.

[BUZZER]

SS: Like that’s a really good feeling. Like it felt great. Aint gonna lie.

DG: Did it sink in for you that what had just happened, Coach?

KS: Yeah, it was surreal for me because, again, I played basketball. I played high school basketball, you know what I mean? And I’m from this city, so I know how hard it is to score. I always tell people, you have to be a little sick in the head to shoot and score a lot. I used to like to pass when I was a kid. I shot too, but I couldn’t score like her. And basically, when it happened, everything flashed in front of my eyes. I just remember the kid when I first met her. And I was like, wow. I said, you know, we really did this. Like, you now what I mean? And she really broke the record. And I just was like that’s cool.

DG: So I want to set the context for the game against Neumann Goretti, right?

[MUSIC]

DG: Your goal was a state championship. I mean, you were feeling, you both were feeling that. And you were going into a playoff game against them.

[YELLING, SNEAKERS SQUEAKING]

KS: It was the semifinals of the state championship. Basically, Shayla came out like strong from the beginning. She just came out, like locked in. And it was just one of those things where it just wasn’t our day as a whole team. And not to take anything away from Neumann, I thought Neumann played a great game. They just got us that day. As the game was going on, I’m coaching to win. So I’m really not.

DG: There’s a lot on the line in this game like this.

KS: Yeah, I’m not even thinking about the record.

DG: Just so everyone knows, this is the record for boys, girls. This is the all-time scoring record in high school, basketball, in Philadelphia’s history.

KS: And and there were some people again that i think they’re throwing little jabs throwing little shots they would put things out like oh yeah Shayla Smith is the all-time leading scorer in the public league, Philadelphia public league, and that’s not true it’s not sure she’s the all time leading scorer…

DG: All hgih school basketball.

KS: All high school, Catholic, private, public, all-time leading scorer, and people would always try to throw little shots, “Oh no, she’s just the all-town leading scorer in the public league.” No, it’s not. And, you know, so again, her doing it against Neumann Goretti, which is a great team, and they wind up winning the state championship, it really, like, helped her recognition as far as, like she did it against everybody, like even the great teams.

DG: Do you remember the shot that you took that got you that record?

SS: Was it the three?

KS: It was the turn around jump shot when clutch…

SS: Oh, the spin is the spin move and the midrange.

KS: Yeah.

DG: Were you both thinking about that, or were you both thinking about, you were down late in the game, right?

SS: I was confused when they said it on the thing, like when the boul announced it, I was like what?

KS: We were only down like four points when she made that shot.

SS: Yeah, I was like worried about the score. I’m like locked in on defense. They like yeah “Shayla Smith is an all-time leading scorer”…

[BUZZER SOUNDS]

ANNOUNCER: Number 24, Shayla Smith!

SS: I’m just like bro come on play the game

DG: Wait, they said that on a…

SS: Yea they said it on the thing.

KS: Yeah, they stopped the game. They did. They called time out. We didn’t call it. They called time out

DG: The Neumann Gorretti did? Or the officials?

SS: The officials, yeah.

DG: Okay. And then they made an announcement.

KS: Yeah, the guy at the table knew.

DG: That’s funny. So you’re thinking like, okay.

SS: Yeah, I’m like, we’re gonna come back, let’s go, let’s go, let’s go.

DG: But we got to come back,We’ve got some momentum. Let’s yeah, get back in the game.

SS: I feel like they messed up the momentum. Not gonna lie.

KS: Nah, we still scored well. We still scored a lot after that. Because remember, you hit that three-pointer that end the quarter, and we went down one.

SS: Yeah, that’s true.

KS: Yeah, because it happened before the quarter ended.

DG: So when were you able to like take a moment to realize what you had done? I mean, you lost a really hard game, but you became a Philadelphia sports legend all in the same like 15 minutes.

SS: It was crazy, it was mixed emotions for sure. I think first I was like the game, I was upset about the game. But then people around me, people on social media and all that, they was like, nobody really was talking about the loss. Everybody was just talking about me breaking the record, or me being the all-time scorer. So that was just like, oh man, nobody cares about me losing. They really supporting me. That’s what kind of lightened my mood a little bit.

DG: How does it feel?

SS: It feels great, like, it definitely feels great. Like, every time I go outside or go somewhere, it’s like somebody, somebody notices me, somebody wants to take a picture. It’s, I like it.

DG: What is that experience like? I mean, describe it to me, like in a grocery store?

SS: Yeah, like the grocery store like yesterday in Chipotle somebody asked to take a picture with me. Yeah it’s a lot.

DG: Do you think it’s sometimes girls who are playing basketball and…

SS: It’s younger kids, girls that play basketball, it’s younger boys, like it’s a lot of people. It’s sometimes grownups too. Like, “Yo, let me take a picture.”

DG: That must be a cool feeling.

SS: Yeah, for sure.

DG: I mean, I am not exaggerating when I say you’re now kind of on a list that includes, you know, Wilt Chamberlain, Dawn Staley, who was a Philadelphia high school basketball legend, now South Carolina coach. I mean, that’s, you are like a legend in basketball in what I would argue is the greatest basketball city maybe in the world.

SS: Yeah, somebody said you’re basically Dawn Staley. You’re this generation’s Dawn Staley.

KS: I’m going to say something really quick that’s funny. And it’s true at the same time. When you talked about younger kids, it’s just amazing. Cause I remember Shayla was upset because, well, it was the truth. She wasn’t really put up here where she should have been sophomore, junior year, like on a national stage. Like we thought that she should have been a top 25 player in the country. Top 30, something like that. But she wasn’t. And I told her one day when we talked about her getting the record, I said, some of the people who may not think you’re as good as we think you are, those people aren’t going to matter because the everyday just fan. They may not even be a basketball fan. It can be an 80 year old woman that’s just like, “Oh, that’s the little girl I just read about in the paper.” And like my daughter who played basketball, now she wears 24\. She wears the head wrap. You know what I’m saying? We’re muslims, but she never played with her khimar on before. Now she, “Dad, order me a Nike khimar.” And now you have a lot of younger kids who look up to her. Kids in the school, I always tell this story all the time. Ninth grade football player, great kid. He’s like, “Coach Slaughter, I need the biggest favor.” I’m like, “What?” “Can you please ask Shayla just to follow me on social media? Follow me back”. You know what I mean? So she’s almost immortal to some of these kids. You know what I mean, and now my new thing is, and I’ve been trying to keep it quiet, I just, I can’t wait for her to leave. Everybody’s like, “Oh, Slaughter, I know you’re gonna be sad when she goes.” No, I’m not. I can wait till she leaves.

DG: Why?

KS: Because I want to see her at the next level

[MUSIC]

KS: I can’ wait. It’s like a.

DG: You’re proud, Coach.

KS: Yeah, yeah, and it’s like, um, I mean, to do this to myself, the one thing I know about me.

DG: Pat yourself on the back, yeah.

KS: We’re gonna be good again next year and the year after now, of course, we don’t have her but she kicked the door in for kids She crawled so these kids can walk and we have a kid now. She’s a 6’3″ sophomore. She’s good, but she’s nowhere near as good as her. But she’s gonna get all the stuff that she should have got because of her. Like wherever we go when she has her stuff on they’re like, “Oh you play with the Muslim girl.” “Oh, you go to Audenried!” And and now she’s getting invited to the things that she didn’t get invited to for whatever reason whether you know It was because they didn’t think she was that good. Maybe they might have didn’t thing that you know, she wasn’t a good look for them or whatever. But now it’s like we’re getting calls now from different schools That wouldn’t have called us three, four years ago you know we’re gettin calls from about tournaments and playing in New York City and coming to different places because of things she did. That’s big for me because when we look back at it, of course her jersey’s going up in the raptors and she’s gonna be… You know, she’s not from South Philly where the school is located. So when I’m going to the stores to get me a sandwich for lunch or going different places, everybody’s like, so when’s she leaving and what are you guys doing for her and you know that kind of thing, like just an everyday person. Not a basketball fan, the guy that stopped me today, we’re in the store getting lunch and he’s like. He’s like, “When can I come up there? I want to get an autograph from Shayla Smith.”

DG: That’s so cool.

KS: And I’m asking him. like, “Well, do you know her?” He’s like, “No.” I said, “Have you ever been in any of our games?” He’s, like, “Nah.” He’s like, “I just know she brought this whole community together.” You know what I mean? And getting that kind of talk about a 17 year old kid is huge. Like brought the community together? I’m like, wow. So that’s big.

DG: What does it feel like to hear that from your coach? I mean, things like that you brought a community together, that you knocked down doors for people following in your footsteps.

SS: I mean, yeah, that’s the goal, like to just like create something bigger than just me, like have other people, like other people trying to be better, other people coming together for basketball, like that’s a big thing. I feel like basketball really can bring people together and like that what it does when you like do what you’re supposed to do.

DG: How do you feel about the rising success of women’s basketball right now? I know some people look at it and say like, it’s long overdue, this should have happened years ago. But it feels like a moment, like what, how do you…

SS: I mean stuff takes time like the NBA wasn’t like the biggest thing out when they first came out They had took some years for the NBA to get big. So it was gonna take some time for like the WNBA to get up there. But we definitely getting up there and it’s like a great time to be like coming up like I’m happy that I’m coming up in this era where it’s likes women’s basketball is a big thing.

DG: Are you excited about the pressure on the spotlight and the media and you know, all that comes with it?

SS: Yeah, for sure. It’s definitely, I’m ready to go. I’m really to leave high school. I’m trying to be in college now.

DG: I’m just struck by this relationship before I let you go. Like this feels really special sitting here with both of you. I really, this is a coach athlete relationship that is very moving.

KS: It’s genuine. I can tell things about her, even though we don’t talk about it out in the open, but I can when things bother her. I can tell when she’s happy. And you know, it’s just like she said, she’s the kind of player, first of all, she just loves basketball. Now that part right there, that’s the part where a lot of kids who look up to her got to understand is, they just see the success part. But yesterday morning, she was in school at 6:30 shooting jump shots. And working out at 6.30, 7 in the morning, before class that starts at eight. So you gotta put the extra work in. You can’t just get the results. So that part right there, I know, that’s why I think she’s gonna succeed in college, because college coaches love the kids that work extra hard. And when she says she’s ready to go, her graduation is June 13th, 2025\. I believe she’ll be on Penn State’s campus June 18th.

DG: Are you ready to play basketball without this guy around?

SS: Yes, thank God. (Laughs)

DG: What’s he meant to you?

SS: Even the laugh, for sure. Like, he’s a big part of my, like, my confidence going up. And, like him putting the ball in my hands and it means a lot, definitely.

DG: Since Shayla graduated from high school last year, she has been carving out her role on her new team, Penn State, a significant Big Ten program with a handful of titles.

Well honestly, congratulations on all your success. You belong on that list with those other legends and I can’t wait to see where your career goes from here.

SS: Thank you.

DG: Coach, thank you to you too.

KS: I appreciate you guys. for having us.

DG: Next time on Sports in America.

[MUSIC]

BONES HYLAND: I always say I’m made for the bright lights and the bright light that made me and I’m ready for them whenever that opportunity comes.

DG: We’re stepping onto the court with point guard Bones Hyland, who’s making a huge mark this season on the Minnesota Timberwolves. And this year isn’t the first time he’s made an impression with some explosive scoring.

BH: The back to back to the back threes. That was one of the biggest moments in like playoff basketball, honestly.

DG: But to get to the NBA, Bones had to survive a sudden trauma that took away some of the people who were closest to him.

BH: When I turn around, all the smoke was covering up the whole room. I can’t see nothing. When I put my head out the window, they’re like, “If you jump, we’re gonna catch you. You have to jump though. You have the jump.”

DG: That’s next time on Sports in America. And also, we want to hear from you. How about you drop us a line? You can write us at sportsinamerica@whyy.org. That is sportsinamerica@whyy.org. Thanks everybody, and we’ll see you next time for Sports in American.

[MUSIC]

This is Sports in America. I’m your host, David Greene.

Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa.

Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our talent booker is Britt Kahn. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling.

Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports, with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeartRadio app, you know, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Executive Producers: Tom Grahsler and Joan Isabella
Senior Producer: Michael Olcott
Producer: Michaela Winberg
Associate Producer: Bibiana Correa
Engineer: Mike Villers
Talent Booker: Britt Kahn
Tile Art: Bea Walling

Sports in America is a production of WHYY, distributed by PRX, and part of the NPR podcast network.

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