“Chief Vibes Officer” Bones Hyland

DAVID GREENE, HOST: Welcome to Sports in America, everybody. I’m David Greene. God, I love this time of year in sports. I mean, we are through March Madness. We’re into April and now we have the NBA playoffs, the NHL playoffs and baseball season is underway. So there’s like just great sports on all the time and high stakes when it comes to the hockey and basketball playoffs, and. you know, being a Philadelphia 76ers fan and a Pittsburgh Penguins fan, this is the first year in a while where both of my teams are pretty much playoff bound, which is awesome. And I know a lot of people can’t really say that, but the question I want to focus on today is this one. If you are able to bait someone into committing a crime, are you liable for that crime? Should you also go to prison? Thematically that is something that is really on the minds of a lot of people in the NBA. And I want to talk about it with my guest today. Jon Krawczynski. He has a podcast called the Jon Krawczynski Show. He’s also a senior writer for The Athletic covers the NBA covers all things sports in Minneapolis. Jon, thanks for being here and do you love this time of year as much as I do?

JON KRAWCZYNSKI: I do, yes, thanks for having me, I really appreciate it. This is what, you know, kind of us NBA wonks really kind of wait for all year long. The regular season is a long, sometimes laborious thing, 82 games, you have load management, you have all of those things that happen, but now as we get into playoff push and postseason, like this is when you can tell the intensity ratchets up, when the quality of play ratchets up, when the excitement goes through the roof. So this is the best time of year for sure.

DG: Yeah. Aren’t there some people who are saying the season is just too damn long? Like they should really trim it a little bit. I mean, injuries and like trouble making sure that all the good players are eligible for MVP awards. Like a lot of people say 82 games is just too long, especially when we have a playoff run that lasts weeks. (Laughs)

JK: Yes, it’s definitely a point of contention within the league and it’s fan-based. Certainly when you have the volume of games that they have and they come every other day almost, you’re going to see nights where stars don’t play, where players are rested a little bit more conservatively, and I think that is a problem for the league, especially with fans who pay full-price tickets to come and watch their favorite players and then just unbeknownst to them, they’re out for that game. And so, there is, I think, a lot of movement or push to reduce the season, reduce the number of games in the regular season. That said, to do that would mean owners, teams, and players all have to take less money. And no one is really in a hurry to sacrifice the golden goose that is the NBA right now. And so unfortunately, I think that a lot of the dialogue about looking at reducing the season, which I think would be helpful to the league, is just fallen on deaf ears because anyone in a position of power to do anything about it is making too much money for them to change it.

DG: Yeah, no, it always comes down to money in this thing we call sports. Well, I want to get to this, this question I kind of teased at the beginning. I mean, foul baiting. This is the idea that a player is doing something to make it look like he is fouled to get himself off in a foul called on the player defending him, get to the line, make free throws, get more points for your team. I mean, hasn’t this always been a thing in the NBA? Why is it so much under scrutiny right now?

JK: It has always been a thing in the NBA, David, but I do think that when, what is ratching it up now is that there are just more replays, there are more, there’s more technology, social media is a big thing now, and so a lot of the young people who are fans of this league consume the game not in watching a full game, but in watching highlights or short clips on social media. And so…

DG: All life is like that now. I mean, you just consume clips of whatever it is, yeah.

JK: Exactly right and so I think that part of the the issue here is that all of these these things that you might have watched in the 1990s Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and a lot of the great scorers do it was all you’re always watching within the context of a game and of course people would get upset with it I mean, let’s make no mistake people got really upset when you know a certain star player would get a questionable call to get to the foul line, but I think that nowadays it is just so much easier to kind of magnify that angst and and to really kind of fixate on whether it is foul baiting whether it is flopping whether you know a lot of those things that It’s just easier to put together compilations of these things happening for a Shai Gilgeous-Alexander for a Jalen Brunson for a Deni Avdija you know kind of frequent I would say pushers of the line. And so it’s become more of a conversation right now and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is right at the front of the line with that. He plays for the defending world champions. He is the reigning MVP. More scrutiny comes his way because of that and so you’re seeing this kind of conversation happen a lot more.

DG: But it’s so interesting, you’re actually saying that social media and kind of the ability of social media to get these compilations of clips and get people talking, it’s almost like a version of tattletale, like you’re saying, like “Look at what happened seven times in this game,” but actually the social media dynamic can actually drive the conversation in an entire professional sports league, which is, I don’t know, kind of alarming.

JK: It is alarming and I would posit that the NBA and like its league office, Commissioner Adam Silver, this league is the most vulnerable to being influenced by social media. The NFL doesn’t really kind of let that bother them, the discourse online, but the NBA seems to be really plugged in with its fans. And so when these debates kind of rage on X, on Instagram, on TikTok, and become issues, the NBA usually is watching a lot closer and sometimes they will make changes to rules. Sometimes they will make decisions kind of based on pushback. But really what we’ve seen is that social media is designed to inflame conflict, to kind of really try to bring hot takes and very kind of incendiary opinions and that’s what gets the most attention. And so right now it is very much at the front of the line of issues on social media is this foul baiting, this flopping and because you can see a player snap his head back as he’s going to the free throw line and not get touched. And that is a, when you slow it down and when you put a bunch of those clips together, it looks like a real epidemic and it gets people really upset.

DG: Yeah. I mean, I joked about, you know, the, whole thing at the, know, if, you bait someone into committing a crime, but there is a camp in the kind of NBA universe of people who say that this is just another skill, like a skill in basketball to be able to make it look like you’re being fouled, which kind of has shocked me as that conversation has ramped up. It’s not like you’re going to see this in, you know, youth basketball camp, right? You’re teaching people how to act. But then I think about, you know, soccer, like diving is such a thing that a lot of players wouldn’t want to admit that they’ve been taught. But, I don’t know all that, you know, none of this is that new in sports.

JK: It isn’t new, you’re right, and I do think that there are certainly the defenders of this action are saying it’s always happened. It is a skill and you know, what they are correct about is that a lot of the purveyors of this practice are just using the rules to their advantage. like, I think one of the unfortunate things to be honest with you is there was a time five, six, seven years ago where the NBA had flopping fines. If a player was deemed to have flopped, they would be fined for that and kind of publicly embarrassed when the NBA issued a release saying that. They’ve gone away from that for some reason, which I don’t know. But I would say that as someone who’s covered this league for more than 20 years, I do think that there is something onerous about the practice. I mean, it certainly is.

DG: Yeah.

JK: Within the rules, it’s certainly, any player can do it. And if they are successful, it can really help their team and help themselves. But I think there is something unethical about it. And I think that’s kind of the catchphrase that has been used lately is, there are ethical hoopers and there are unethical hoopers. It’s not a fun thing to watch, in my opinion, when you see these guys try to just trick their way into foul shots into victories for their team when I think it’s much more honorable to see players just try to win on merits of skill and execution. So I personally think it is an issue and I would like to see those flopping fines come back and be more aggressive in that. But there are people who do say, “Hey, it’s not a big deal. They’re just doing what is within the realm of, of the rule book and bending those rules to their favor.”

DG: Yeah, and I, I loathe the idea. but I know it’s probably coming. There’ll be some like crucial game seven moment where it’s so clear to all of us watching that there was foul baiting going on and a player gets to the line and like, you know, wins the series because of that. Wouldn’t be good for the league, but I feel like we’re heading in that direction somehow.

JK: Yeah, it’s unfortunate. And then let’s just, if you want to really open the door, when you look at the prevalence of gambling that has come into sports and how these leagues have embraced gambling and then what it would, I think some of these moves do, is further the narrative that maybe officials either are doing a really poor job or are in on it in some way, shape or form, which is completely unfair to the referees. I think in general, this game is a very difficult game to officiate. And when you have these guys who are so talented going at full speed, really trying to trick you, that only makes everyone look bad. It makes the player look bad, it makes the official look bad, and then it gets gamblers who have money on the line even more upset about it, and it just really does fuel a fire that is not out of control yet, but I do think it’s something that needs to be tended to to prevent it from really reaching another level.

DG: Yeah. Well, let me, let me ask you about the team you cover a lot, the Minnesota Timberwolves. So much expectation for them this season. Probably haven’t met those expectations, but still I think heading for the playoffs. I mean, how, are you feeling about them? How are fans feeling about them?

JK: Yeah, I think a lot of angst around this team. I mean, they went to the Western Conference Finals the previous two years. They brought back most of the team from last season. And I think there was a real belief that they were going to just kind of take the next step and go from Western Conference finalist to the NBA Finals and really challenge for a championship. And what we’ve seen so far from this team is a group that largely, unfortunately, kind of played the regular season kind of bored.

DG: (Laughs) You never want that. That’s not what you want to describe a season.

JK: You don’t, and we talked at the start of this conversation about how, no, you don’t. we talked about, you know, at the start of this conversation about 82 games and if you think you are a good team, sometimes it can be hard to be focused on that grind when you just want to speed ahead to the playoffs. And I think they got themselves in trouble because they didn’t really kind of come with the requisite energy, with the requisite kind of intensity that is needed to get them to a point where they could be in home court advantage situation going into the first round of playoffs. So now they’re kind of scratching and clawing for that sixth seed and to stay out of the playing tournament. And they are having some injuries right now too to some really key players. And so they are, they’re flailing a little bit and everyone expects that, hey, if you can get into the playoffs, get a week off, gear up, get healthy, they can flip a switch and get going. And that is possible, but they are walking a very thin line between success and disaster right now, and it’s been that way all season.

DG: Sounds like my Sixers clawing to stay out of the lower seed playing stuff and you know, they’ve gotten healthy at the right time maybe, but you know, being one of those bottom four seeds, the chance to get knocked out immediately is incredibly risky. Jon, stay with me. actually, next I want to talk to you a little bit about one of the players on that Minnesota Timberwolves team, Bones Hyland because I was able to have a pretty emotional and pretty amazing conversation with him that we’re gonna serve up to our listeners today. But I want to ask you about him first and I will do just that coming up next. We’ll have more with Jon Krawczynski.

[MUSIC]

Welcome back to Sports in America, everybody. I’m David Greene. am with Jon Krawczynski, who is a senior writer for The Athletic, covers the NBA. Jon, we were just talking about the Minnesota Timberwolves, the team you cover. I want to ask you about one player. It’s point guard Bones Hyland who we’re going to be hearing a lot from, on today’s show, but, he has a nickname on the team, I think it’s the CVO, the “Chief Vibes Officer.” Why is that? What’s he like? What should we know about Bones?

JK: This is not a hyperbole to say one of the best stories in the league this season is happening in Minnesota with Bones Hyland. He was a former first round draft pick of the Denver Nuggets several years ago. He had a very good rookie season. And I think that he will tell you that that all really went to his head and he kind of wanted it all right away. Started to alienate teammates and players and kind of was a little selfish in the way that he handled that success and ended up traded away from a championship team in the middle of a championship season and was kind of waylaid with the Los Angeles Clippers, didn’t really play a whole lot at all. Last season comes to Minnesota on a two way contract and so he’s literally hanging on to the league by his fingernails. Like he’s one step away from not being in the NBA and the president of the basketball operations with the Timberwolves, Tim Connelly drafted him in Denver, and just believes in him and wanted to give him a second chance. And he has really come here a humbled individual and now is kind of looking at things from a team first perspective. And he has emerged from the very bottom of the roster to now become one of their critical players on this team. This is a very moody team, Dave. They ride a wave of emotions and they can get high and they can get low. And Bones is one of the few that is in there who is always positive, who is always trying to get people smiling, get people feeling good. When he’s on the court, he’s playing very fast and flashy and he brings just a light to this team that it sorely needed. And it all comes from kind of the perspective of his career and knowing how quickly he can lose it. And I’m sure you also got into some details about where he grew up and the tragedies that he endured just to even get out of high school and alive literally. And so I think all of that perspective just makes him look at the world and look at this kind of circus that is life in the NBA in an entirely different way. And he’s been a revelation for these guys. It’s been a huge, huge addition to them when a few of their other guys had not worked out and Bones Hyland’s been great for them.

DG: It’s incredible. I mean, what an evolution. I love stories of athletes where you can really watch that kind of transformation and with Bones. I mean, to go from someone who admits it sounds like that, you know, a lot of his success went to his head and now being a real team leader, source of inspiration for a team that’s, you know, trying to claw and fight and get into the playoffs and, and do something special. It’s really, it’s really magical.

JK: It is and especially when you go back to, he grew up in Delaware in Wilmington, Delaware very tough area, neighborhood of Wilmington and was a well thought of player but not like a super recruit. And he had lived in a house with 12 of his relatives was watching March Madness and In 2018 and the house catches on fire. He has to jump out of his second floor bedroom to save his own life. In landing on the ground tears up his knee and has his career threatened there. His grandmother and 11 month old cousin die in the fire and he gets through all of that tragedy all of that heartache and not only just survives that but thrives and goes to college and plays really well and gets to the NBA. So not only did he overcome a lot in the NBA, but it’s kind of a miracle that he even got to the NBA in the first place. That’s what you get in this business for, is to see those types of stories and to be able to tell them and talk to them and just see the world through their eyes. So it’s been a delight getting to know him and then just to see him thrive after all that he’s overcome It’s pretty incredible for sure

DG: Yeah, no, you’re totally right. Jon Krawczynski is a senior writer at The Ahtleic covers the NBA. I know you love this time of year, like I do, and, hope we get a chance to catch up again soon as we get, closer to seeing who gets that NBA title this year.

JK: Would love to, thanks for having me.

DG: Thank you, Jon.

So, I wanna get us now to the conversation I had with Bones Hyland who grew up in Wilmington, Delaware, went through unimaginable trauma as Jon and I were just talking about and we’re gonna get to that in this conversation. I have to say Jon also mentioned that there was a time when Bones Hyland acknowledges now that he was letting success get to his head and I think it’s safe to say I heard that in his voice when I was talking to him a couple years ago.

BONES HYLAND: I always say I’m made for the bright lights, and the bright light has made me, and I’m ready for them whenever that opportunity comes.

[MUSIC]

[CROWD CHEERING]

ANNOUNCER: Another sell-out crowd here at Ball Arena. Seeing if the hometown team can stay off elimination.

DG: It is April 24th, 2022\. The Denver Nuggets are taking on Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and the Golden State Warriors at home in the first round of the playoffs. The Nugget’s are getting destroyed. They’re down 3-0 in the series, and this game is gonna decide whether their season is over.

BROADCASTER: Remember now the Warriors lead the NBA in points off of cuts and points off of screens.

BH: I had to get my rhythm and my feel for the first couple of minutes, so I’m like, we gotta do something to beat them.

DG: For Bones Hyland, who was a rookie at that time, this game would be his chance to prove that he can perform under a whole lot of pressure.

BH: You know, when I step between the lines and I checked in I’m like, you know, I’m finna go off and it’s finna be my game to, you know, let them know who Bones Hyland is and who he’s gonna be, you know, in this league. I’m gonna go out there and do everything in my power to try to put the team in the best position to win.

BROADCASTER: The Warriors shooting just 29 percent. Bones! And that’s going to be an offensive foul on Cousins underneath.

BH: I had shot a transition top of the key, like hesitation move into a three I had missed. And I’m like, yeah, okay, now I got one off. I got my rhythm now. Even though I missed, I know how to measure how the ball’s supposed to go in and stuff like that.

BROADCASTER: Hyland from deep.

BH: I came down, hit one three.

[CROWD CHEERING]

BROADCASTER: The rookie with a nice answer.

BH: I got my rhythm and my feel. So the next time I come down, just set the tempo from there. I’m like, “Okay, now I’m hot, I’m warm now.” So after that, I come down.

BROADCASTER: Hyland on the way.

BH: I did like four between the legs, and I hit it.

BROADCASTER: Another three. You talked about it!

BH: And I had like backpedaled back and watched it go in. Now the crowd know what’s about to happen. I’m the type of guy, I like to get the crowd into it. That’s what they paid the tickets for, to come see somebody exciting. That’s why I bring to the game. That’s how I’ve been since I was little. I always make the crowd feel like they actually playing in the game

BROADCASTER: And Hyland with a rebound. Another three, Bones!

BH: As soon as I let it go I knew.

[CROWD CHEERING]

BH: I knew it was money.

BROADCASTER: He’s got all that, folks.

BH: So after I hit the third three, I ran to the other side of the crowd. I’m smacking their hands and stuff like that and just letting them know like we’re not going out like that.

DG: When I first talked to Bones back in 2022, he was a rookie making a quick name for himself with the Denver Nuggets. In that playoff game against the Warriors, Bones scored three three-pointers in just 64 seconds and he helped put the Nugget’s up by 15 points over the course of the game. He gave his team the momentum they needed to win in that do or die Game Four.

BH: The back-to-back threes, that was one of the biggest moments in, like, playoff basketball, honestly.

DG: And that wasn’t the first time he had made an impression with some explosive scoring. In the regular season, he did it against the Philadelphia 76ers.

You hit three threes in a row and put you guys up in the fourth quarter.

BH: (Laughs) That’s like another dream come true, honestly.

[MUSIC]

DG: That game was a dream, and not just because of what he did on the court, but because of the people who were in the arena that night, friends, family, and the firefighters who rescued him from a burning house when he was 17 years old.

BH: When I turn around, all the smoke was covering up the whole room. I can’t see nothing. When I put my head out the window, they’re like, “If you jump, they gonna catch you. You have to jump though. You have jump.”

DG: In this week’s conversation, how Bones Hyland survived a tough childhood in Wilmington, Delaware, and a sudden trauma that took away some of the people who were closest to him. To this day, he uses that loss as motivation to keep going. Bones’ story is one about working hard to prove your worth, to your teammates, to the crowds in the stands, and to yourself, when so many people depend on your success.

At 25 years old, Bones is now a difference maker on his new team, the Minnesota Timberwolves. But when I spoke to him four years ago, he was still with the Denver Nuggets and they just picked up his third year option. Bones was considered to be a rising star after averaging 10 points and 19 minutes of playing time in his rookie season. That year ended when the Warriors knocked them out of the playoffs in Game Five, but it was that strong showing in Game F`our that was still fresh on the mind of Bones Hyland when we talked.

Did you really think that you guys still had a shot in the series or was this a game where you wanted to send some kind of message even if the season was gonna be over pretty soon?

BH: The crazy part about it is we had them Game Two when we played at our house. We had them and we gave the game to them. And then we went back to their place and it was just down three. So it was like for myself, I’m like, we can beat them.

[MUSIC]

BH: I’m gonna go out there and do everything in my power to try to put the team in the best position to win. So I’m a fighter. I go out and play my heart out. Ain’t nobody gonna point me around on the court. So I let that be known when I step in between the lines.

DG: When you get into a rhythm like that, what is the emotion? Do you feel like you just can’t be stopped?

BH: Yeah, unstoppable for sure, especially like a scorer and a facilitator like me. It’s hard to like really guard me for real. If you take away the three ball, I just got so much areas of my game that I can just pull out. But I just feel very unstoppable, honestly. I feel like nobody can stop me when I’m in that mode and I’m in that mindset where I’m just, I’m on go.

DG: How loud was that crowd? I’ve watched the highlights and it, I mean, it sounds like it was deafening.

BH: Man it was crazy loud you know this play out basketball so everybody watching every single possession so…

DG: Sixty four seconds. It really changed a lot for you it sounds like.

BH: I won’t say. (Laughs)

DG: You guys end up beating Golden State by five that night. Was there something special about taking down the likes of Steph Curry and Draymond Green in a playoff game?

BH: Oh yeah, of course, you know, those guys are first-ballot Hall of Famers, so they got rings underneath their belt. So just to be able to beat them, for me, it wasn’t no backing down. I’m the type of kid, like, I respect greatness, but at the same time, I’m going to be one of them too. So I step on the court, and that’s how I carry myself too. I don’t hate on nobody, but that’s just how I carried myself when I step on the court. I believe I’m a star, so when I’m going against other stars, I got love and respect for them. But when we’re in between the lines, it’s war.

DG: So you’re out there playing against someone like Steph Curry as a rookie, and you’re thinking, I’m gonna be like you.

BH: (Laughs) Yeah, and somewhat, you know, everybody’s different, you know, his path and what he has done for the game, you know, I see myself doing the same thing, you know, in my own way.

DG: Where does that come from? How do you know you’re gonna be an elite star?

BH: Just God, you know, he instilled that confidence in me, that humbleness as well too, but just that will to know that you’re gonna be a star and also the hard work that I put in. I trust my work, you now, I work hard. So I never had no doubt in my work and you know my work would take me to be a star. So I just, I don’t know, I just type of kid I’ve always been since I was little. I always knew I was gonna be star and you now that’s what I’m headed to.

DG: What does hard work mean to you?

BH: Blood, sweat, and tears. Every single day, you know, put your life on the line for basketball. That’s what I say hard work is.

DG: But before all his success in basketball, Bones grew up in Wilmington, Delaware raised by a single mom who had to fight to keep the family afloat.

[MUSIC]

So take me to growing up in Delaware. Are there moments that you remember thinking like, I’ve got a future in the NBA?

BH: Yeah, it was a league over east side of Wilmington, and I started to like get comfortable with my game and work on my game more. I started getting a hand-due, you know, and started getting like more like be a threat on the scoring side. So, you know, it’s this one game over east side of Wilmington, and I had my family there. And I have like 50 points this game, and I was just going off on all like four levels, like layups, mid-range, threes, deep threes crossing people over, everything. And I was young, I was probably like 11, 10 years old. My uncle would come there he hasn’t seen me play live and he’s seeing it the first time or like the second time when I drop 50 and he like see it in me like yeah you’re gonna be a star that just stuck with me ever since then I’m like yeah they ain’t can’t nobody stop me.

DG: Wow, it sounds like family believing in you was really important.

BH: It’s big, family big for me. That’s the number one thing I lean on is my family. That’s who I do it for. Everything I do for is for my family, I’m big on family. My mother raised me, a single parent household. I had no father figure in my life. She raised four kids on her own. I was born in Salisbury, North Carolina, but I was raised in Wilmington, Delaware. I grew up in a tough environment, but I just always used that basketball outlet to get tough moments off my mind and stay in the gym and not really feed into the poverty and stuff like that, that I had to face at a young age. But, you know, my mom held it down for me. She didn’t, and she held it down for my and my siblings. She didn’t make no excuses growing up. That’s my queen, that’s my heart, that’ my everything. That’s who I, you know, do it for, and just to see her smile every day, that’s why I keep going. Now, growing up was tough for me, but at the end of the day, my mom made it happen for me and my siblings and my family, and we here now, and you know we gonna keep going up in the grace of God.

DG: Tell me more about tough Bones. What did tough environment mean? What was a day in your life like?

BH: I don’t know, you’re just growing up in the hood, you just like, you gotta be tough. You’re around a lot of adults, a lot violence, a a lot street members and stuff like that. You walk into the gym, you seeing so much, it just make you grow up fast and it made me grow up fast as well but I use that as motivation for me to never go back to that and that’s something that, you know, I’m thankful for me going through that honestly because it made me tough. It made me who I am today. It made me, you know, Bones Hyland so I’m very thankful for being able to grow up in a tough environment, going through the stuff that I went through. And I told my mom one day when we was living on the west side of Wilmington, I was seeing my mom, she come home from work and she sat in her car and she was just crying in her car. I know my mom. She’s strong. She was outside for a long time and I knew she got off already so she just in the car. And I had went outside. It was just me and my mom and we was just talking. She was just playing music and she just had the music up and I had bawled my eyes out. I’m just telling my mom, I’m gonna make it to the league and make sure that we’re gonna be all right. Ever since then, that’s just been one of those moments that I always go back to. That’s something that keeps me going and keeps me motivated, because nobody never wants to see their mom down, especially if you have a close relationship with your mom and you see her crying and stressing and stuff like that. Especially when you know your mom tough and she don’t want to show that. And that’s where I get it from, that toughness and that fight, because she’s been fighting her whole life. So that’s something where I got it from.

DG: What was her fight like when you said she’s been fighting her whole life?

BH: Struggled to pay bills, trying to figure out each and every way to make sure there’s food on the table. And she made it happen, but she never made no excuses. So that’s what I mean by that. So she made that happen. Like whatever the case may be, it always was happening. Like if it was Christmas coming around, we might not get every gift that we wanted, but we got gifts though, she made sure that it happened. She made sure when my cousins and her nieces and nephews came over, she make sure that they ate. And even on Christmas, she makes sure that they got gifts.

DG: She sounds incredible.

BH: She is incredible. (Laughs) It’s like how? It’s crazy. Sometimes I just get like, I don’t know, I just get real teary-eyed because I’ll just be like, wow, like how did you do it, you know? And you know, like I said, my mom, like the way I was brought up and the way I was raised, like we was big on like living with each other or like making sure everybody was straight. Not just, okay, everybody gonna be divided. Everybody gonna find your own way. Nah, that’s not how my mom wanted it. That’s not my, you know, my grandma wanted it, so it’s like we all together. We all in the same household. We seen each other every day. My mom’s sister, she had three kids. I called them like my siblings. I really watched them be born and live in the household that I lived in under. I’m like, man, it’s not my cousins. These are like my sibling. Like this is my baby sister and my baby brother. Like I don’t like calling them my cousins because it’s more than just my cousin. You know, my mom made it happen for me and my siblings and my family. Really like a single parent who just like raised like me, my two sisters and my brother and her nieces and nephews. And then taking care of like my uncles and my aunts and making sure everybody good.

DG: I can’t imagine her feeling and what it meant to her when you were drafted.

BH: Man, as soon as I got my name called…

ANNOUNCER: In the 2021 NBA draft, the Denver Nuggets select Bones Hyland from Virginia Commonwealth University.

BH: That was the first person I hugged and we just fell, like, it just showed you like everything that we’ve been through just from that hug and them tears and stuff like that. Like it just show like, dang, like they really been through a lot. It’s like a real life movie.

DG:Yeah. Do you remember what you said to her or what she said to you when your name was called in the draft?

BH: “We did it,” just like basically telling me that I’m a superstar and stuff like that. Like I’ma star, it’s go time. My mom like my biggest confidence booster. I get it from my mom. I get everything from my mom. So she like, it was my biggest confident booster. When I’m on the court, you see my mom in the crowd like waving her hand, you know that just keep me going and keep me, just keep getting busy.

DG: Was she at that playoff game?

BH: Yeah, she at every game, every home game, you know, majority of the road games, she’s at all of them.

DG: We’ll have more with Bones Hyland coming up next on Sports in America.

This is Sports in America and here’s more from our conversation with Minnesota Timberwolves point guard Bones Hyland.

I do want to ask you about another moment in your life. I mean, makes your story so, so inspiring. It was 2018\. You’re 17 years old. There was a fire in your home. I wonder if you don’t mind taking me through it. I think you were watching March Madness when this all played out.

BH: Yeah.

[MUSIC]

BH: I was watching March Madness in my bedroom, and I was on a FaceTime phone with my friend, and my phone was propped up on the laptop, so I was on FaceTime talking to him, and we was both watching the game on the laptops, so I’m watching the game, and I’m talking to him about the game and stuff like that. So I just started to smell like smoke, and I’m like, no, this has got to be like a barbecue, because I grew up in the hood, so barbecues are regular, it’s normal. So you smell like the charcoal pit and stuff, that’s normal. But I’m like, nah, this is getting real intense. And then keep getting intense. So I’m starting to see black smoke coming to my room. So I just chill for a little bit, but then it start getting real intense. So I had hopped up and get off my feet, and now it’s real, real intense, so I’m like, “Oh.” As soon as I get up to open my door, I see this booth of flames, and I start to think to myself, it’s like, where my family at? Because this is one of those days where we just chilling, we just relaxing, and it’s a weekend day. I think this was on a weekend. And we just chilling and relaxing. But it was just me, my grandma, and my two baby cousins that I call my baby brothers. And their mom had went to McDonald’s to get food. So I get up and I see like flames. So I had instantly closed the door. Cause you know, if you keep it open, the flames is going to come in. So I have closed the doors and I’m like, I probably got like, I don’t know how long I got, but I got to make something shake. So I go to the window. Now when I turn around, all the smoke was covering up the whole room. I can’t see nothing. And like I lived in a real old house, like a real, real old house. So my window like really never open. So I go over there to like try to open it and it didn’t open. So I’m just like touching around, trying to see what’s around there. It’s black smoke. Now the flames are starting to like, trying to like is they building up now? So I got to the second window and I’m trying to touch it a little bit, trying to pull it up, but it ain’t pulling up at all. It’s still like staying stuck. And now like as I’m touching it though, like it’s getting hot, like real hot. So I am touching them like, “Oh whoa.” So I just dropped to my knees. Man, if this is my time, Lord. I feel like I was a good, humble kid. I did it right by people, so I’m praying on the floor, and I’m on two knees, and I think it’s over with.

So I’m prayin’ and stuff like that, so I just sit on the flooring, I’m balled up between my knees, and I’ve just got my hands over my head. I’m just cryin’. And then after that, I just keep hearing the voices say, get up, get up. And go to the window. I get up and I walk to the left of the window, and I’m trying to pull it up, and it ain’t going at first, so I just keep hearing the voice in my head. Just keep trying, just pull it up. And I just use all of my might to pull the window up, and then finally open, and I’m like, I’m screaming out the window. I’m, like, “Can y’all come save me?” “Can you come get me from out the house?” “Can you go get me in from out of the house. “They’re like, “We can’t, it’s on fire downstairs, it’s burning,” and they’re like “You have to jump, Bones, we need you. You’re the last hope in Wilmington. We need you, like you had to jump.”

And I’m like, those thoughts was in my head, because coming from where I come from, it ain’t no stars or ain’t nobody who people look up to. So to be truthful, that was right, what they was saying. I was on a rise to go to the league and stuff like that. So when I put my head out the window, they’re like, “If you jump, we’re gonna catch you. You have to jump, though. You have to jump.” So I had looked back, and if I was in there for like two, three more seconds, I probably would have been dead, honestly. Because I looked back and I seen the flames coming near me. And when I had jumped out, I felt all the black marks on me, all the flame marks, but when I jumped, they were just released off me. So I had to jump like head first and they caught me from waist up. And once I tried to get up and walk, I had fell right back down and I was crawling. And as I’m crawling, I’m calling to the car and stuff like that. I’m trying to seek help. And then everything is rambling through my mind now. So I’m just trying to figure out how to reach my mom. That’s the number one thing I never forget, my mom phone number. I forgot my mom’s phone number, I’m like, what’s my mom number? What’s my mom’s phone number? After that, some lady had came up and she got in touch with my mom. I’m like, “Mom, mom the house on fire.” And all I see is my aunt, man, I told you she went to McDonald’s. All I see her running up the street with the McDonald’s in her hand and she run, she throw the McDonalds up in the air. And I told her, she like, “What happened?” I’m, like “The house’s on fire, the house is on fire,” and she’s trying to run in the building to save her baby boys. And the house was already on fire it’s like burning down now and stuff like that. And you know, it was just one of those moments. It’s like, man, wow, like this happened so fast.

DG: Did you know at this point what had happened to your grandma and cousins?

BH: Nah, I didn’t know, so after that, no, after I called mom, this was when, like, the ambulance coming down. So, ambulance like rushing in the house, trying to get the flames out. I told them who was in the the house. They immediately running upstairs, trying to them and stuff. And as they went to go get them, they carried my grandma out, and she was just like burnt and like straight like flames a little bit. And then like-

DG: I’m so sorry.

BH: Yeah, and then that part like hit me. That’s when I knew it was like real, you know? And I had, that’s all I could think about was my baby brother and her. And them just being carried out and me just trying to like wrap it around my mind just to like really like, wow, they really in there. And them being carried on, I’ve never seen my grandmother like that like at all. And all I could think about was them. And this is one of those days where it was just like, you know, it was a real relaxing day. It’s not one of these days where, you now, we around each other that much. It was like a real relaxing day. You know, whether that’s one of the days where I didn’t really get, you know, my last words with my grandmother or my baby brother. So it was more so like, it’s like a wow moment.

DG: I am so sorry. What you’re describing is, I can’t even process it or imagine it.

BH: Nah, you good.

DG: When did you find out that you had lost your grandma and one of your cousins?

BH: We went to the hospital about 20 to 25 minutes later after they carried them out. As we’re sitting in the hospital, I think my grandmother died the same day and my baby brother, he passed a couple hours later. But one was by the grace of God, he survived. His name was Isaac Williams. We call him Baby Izzy. That’s like my angel on Earth. And every time I see him, I just think like, man, this is crazy. Just to, he don’t even know yet. He don’t know what he survived yet. So just seeing him so smiling, tears of joy. This ball of energy, you know, when he’d come around, it’s like, you just hug him, you just wanna be around him, like everybody love him. And that’s how I was when I was a baby, I was the same way, like, everybody wanted to be around me, everybody loved me, everybody want to hug me, everybody wanted watch me, and it’s just like, I see him like, in me, that’s like me all over again.

DG: You see yourself in him, yeah.

BH: Yeah, so I’m just like man, that is just crazy, so that’s really like my angel on Earth, so when he come around that’s like my joy.

DG: Can you tell me about your grandma and what she was like and your relationship with her?

BH: Yeah, my grandma was really the heart and soul of the family. She made sure that we got up and went to church, too. She was just everything to us. So it was just one of those, like, dang, grandma really gone, who we gonna lean on, and stuff like that.

DG: She’s the glue who would have kept the family together going through something hard like this, but you didn’t have her.

BH: Yeah, she just kept everything glued together, you know? And that was my mom and her siblings’ mom, so just to see their mom pass, it was just like, you can’t replace that. But my mom still go through it. She still deal with it. Her sisters and her brother still go though it, but at the end of the day, we’re just thankful that we’re here and we still living day to day. So yeah, I’m just blessed to be here still.

DG: Do you remember the pain in your knee when you jumped from the bedroom and fell?

BH: So my adrenaline was rushing so fast, when I jumped off, I didn’t feel anything tear. I just felt like I was racing thinking about something else. But when I had got up, I couldn’t walk at all, so I’m like, man, something gotta be wrong with my knees.

DG: So you, you tore your patella tendon, which I know connects your kneecap to your shin bone. I mean, it’s obviously it’s a big injury. What did the doctors tell you about your future in basketball?

BH: I was in a room and I was with my family and she came in there and she had like a sad face on. I’m like, what’s wrong with her? And I’m just thinking that she’s just sad for us and stuff like that but this was like a real like another sad like sad for me. Soon as she come in there she’s like, “Yeah, the way it’s looking, it’s not looking too good. You know, you might not be able to play basketball ever again.” Instantly, I like, I just bawled my eyes out. I’m, like, you mean to tell me that I’m not going to be able do the thing that I love growing up? I’ve been playing this game since I was like two years old. You mean to me that you’re not going be able or make it to the league, or even just bounce a ball again, or shoot the ball through a hoop and run up and down, be competitive with the game. Your telling me that’s been taken away from me? I just bawled my eyes out, man, but I never lost faith in the most high that I was gonna be able to get back on the court. It just, hearing those words just hurt.

DG: But you didn’t think she was right?

BH: Nah, nah, not, zero chance. I didn’t think she was right at all. I don’t listen to that.

[MUSIC]

DG: So what did it mean when you are drafted, 26 overall, in the NBA and after? Overcoming the injury alone is extraordinary, but then after being through the horrible pain of losing family in a fire.

BH: Yeah, I mean, being drafted, that was a dream come true for me. But like I said, I’m big on family. That was real taking the stress and the pain off of my back. It just showed all the hard work and stuff that I’ve been doing for myself and my family. It just paid off. And not having to go through struggle and stuff again, that was dark moments and dark times for me and my family. It was really like a struggle, just trying to find ways to eat and find ways to just make sure that we are all right, for real. But, when I heard my name get called, I was just like, one of those like, ah, dang it, the pressure and stuff is off my back now. Now I can just really do the thing that I love now without having to deal with everything else. I can go out there and just be myself and stress-free and just hoop and just play and smile with joy.

DG: I know whenever we see you play on the court, you have some huge tattoos, I think, are they on your left arm?

BH: Yeah, my left arm.

DG: Yeah, can you?

BH: Yeah, over here

DG: Can you tell me about them?

BH: Yeah, so my left one up here is my baby brother who passed, and underneath that one is my grandmother. You know, right between them I have 3\. 25\. 2018\. And for my baby bother I have a teddy bear. You know he like the teddy bear, and for my grandma I have a dove. That just describes those two. That’s just something every time I feel like I’m going through something or like I just need some extra motivation. You know I just look to my left for my shoulder and I just, that’s my why right there. Like I ain’t giving up at all. Like no matter how hard it get. I’ve already been through the worst, like it can’t get no worse than what I’ve been through, so.

DG: How often do you look at your left arm when you’re playing in a game?

BH: So like, I kiss my big brother and my grandmother and I do like the cross across my chest before every game. And you know, I don’t look at them like mad times throughout the game, but like here and there, I catch myself looking at my arm, you know? But I feel them when I’m out there playing though. That’s the best part about it. Like I feel their energy and feel like their touch when I am out there and playing. Especially like when I really going off, I’m like, yeah, they with me.

DG: I want to ask you about another time that you went off on the court.

BROADCASTER: Yeah fired up for this one. These guys know each other quite well, so the intensity in this game will be hot.

DG: This was during the regular season last year, so I don’t know. I guess it was a game with lower stakes than that playoff game. But for you, I know it was an incredibly big stage because it was in Philly. You’re playing the 76ers.

BH: Oh yeah! (Laughs)

DG: You’re from Delaware, it’s like a homecoming. Tell me about that game and tell me who was in the stands watching.

BH: So it was like 600 to 700 people that came from Wilmington, Delaware. And once I got drafted, they already was buying tickets to like the Philadelphia game and stuff like that. They already knew what it was.

DG: They marked ir on their calendar.

BH: Yeah, they marked that game on the calendar already. So when I had came down there and I had posted the location, like I’m home, my Instagram was just blowing up, like blowing up. Like, like we coming out tomorrow. Like we coming out tomorrow to support you and everything. I’m just like, yeah, this is going to be like a homecoming. This is going be love. So. I go there the next day and we playing there and like I see the firefighters that saved me and my baby brother and put the house flames out and stuff like that and then I see my family and that just mean a lot to me and just to see them on the sideline and just see all the people that was just supportive of me and to just be able to bring the city out, you don’t get no better than that honestly. So I knew I was going to go off that game too.

DG: Yeah, you went off.

ANNOUNCER: There comes Hyland. Hyland thinking about it. Fires away. It’s good!

DG: I mean, you did the thing again.

BROADCASTER: Hyland three pointer puts it up, puts it in! Bones Hyland, does it again!

DG: And you hit three threes in a row and put you guys up in the fourth quarter. And maybe I’m exaggerating, but you won the game for it. There’s a poetry there that’s kind of…

BH: That’s like another dream come true honestly. Like I said, Philadelphia is 20 minutes from me.

[CROWD CHEERING[

BH: So seeing 700 Delaware people come out and support me, they got my jerseys on, my apparel on, just screaming my name throughout the whole game. Whether if I’m on a bench or if I am in the game, they are screaming up my heart. So that just show like, they really proud of what I’ve become and what I have overcame. Just to see me in the league and accomplish my goals through everything that I’ve been through. It’s like, how can you not look at Bones’ story and want to follow after that kid or. Or they bring their kids to the game to look at Bones. You know, this could be you. And man, it’s like a dream come true. That game was crazy.

DG: Well, you’ve said that you want to show kids who are growing up in Wilmington that they can make it to where you are because you did it, you pulled this off. Why is that important to you?

[MUSIC]

BH: It’s really important to me because I never really had a role model to look up to when I was growing up in a tough environment. It was just everybody was just hooping, is drug dealers, is violence, is gang members. There’s no guys who made it to the NBA or they made it the league. It was years back and they really wasn’t that known. So I’m like, I got to be one of those guys who’s going to be the face of the city and the hope for the city. When I made it, I lived by a phrase, “It could be you.’ That’s my phrase that I use as motivation for the younger youth, for growing up in the city that I come from, or just cities around the world if you’re coming from tough environments and the stuff that I faced at an early age. I live by “It could be you.” This could be in my position. You can overcome the stuff that I overcome. Even though it’s hard right now, you can do the same exact thing, and that’s something that I take pride in. I wanna make sure that I’m representing the right way, making sure the kids can look up to somebody like me and say like, “I want to be like Bones Hyland, following his footsteps and do what he did for himself and for his family.”

DG: Is there a moment after that game you guys win, you have the firefighters in the house, you have your family there, what moment stands out to you the most from that night?

BH: I had went to the locker room and I had put my stuff, like took my jersey off and put like my flip-flops and stuff back on. I got a video on my Instagram, like me just walking back out and like seeing like, I don’t even know how many people it was, man. Just to see like all those people out there waiting for me after the game. And like, it was like one of those proud moments of me. You know, they proud of what, you know, I came, you from Wilmington, Delaware. And just to see that, see all the, you now, screaming my name, see all the jerseys, the apparel. And the first person I seen though was my mom. And that’s the first that I hugged. And my baby brother, I’m like, “Ma, we did it. ” This is one of the moments that I dreamed of, of coming back home and putting on for the city. And that was one of biggest moments of my lifetime.

DG: Well, you know, we talk moments in the show, obviously, and you’ve had some, some huge ones, some incredible ones, some really painful ones. What’s your fantasy for the next one? What are you and I going to be talking about like in a couple of years?

BH: Oh, man, I don’t know. I don’t want to lay down right here, man. It’s gonna happen though. It’s gonna happen for sure

DG: I love that, let it play out the way it does. Don’t predict anything.

BH: Yeah. For sure/

DG: What about a rap career? I was listening to the album drop from a couple months ago. You’re pretty good.

[BONES HYLAND’S SONG PLAYS]

BH: Nah, thank you. I appreciate it. I’m really trying to like… They asked me so much to send them the clean version so they can play it in Ball Arena, but I just never do it. They want to play my music and they’re so bad.

DG: (Laughs) You just want to be you.

BH: But I didn’t send them no clean versions, but they like “Bones. like, can you please get us the clean versions.” So they could spin like all my tracks while we’re warming up and stuff like that. But I’m just telling them, I don’t even know how to make a track clean. So I’m like, I dunno how to do that. Honestly, I just do the music side like just to be like a good like escaping route besides basketball like release my thoughts so that you know what I’ve been through. Like if you listen to all my songs you can map out my whole life story throughout every single one of my songs and that’s who I am. Like every single song is just ties back into one

DG: Bones, your life is really inspiring and it’s been really an honor talking to you.

BH: Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank so much. I enjoyed it.

[THEME MUSIC]

DG: Next time, on Sports in America, we sit down with New York Times bestselling author Shea Serrano to hear his unique takes on…well, everything

SHAE SERRANO: Like the most expensive violin ever, if it was made out of butter and somebody was playing it, that’s what a Ray Allen jump shot looks like.

DG: We’ll talk about the love story that propelled his career, what he learned from his students teaching middle school, and get ready for the NBA postseason by reminiscing about Shea’s beloved Spurs:

SS: If you weren’t a Spurs fan, if your team was playing Tim Duncan, you were a little bit afraid, because you knew what the guy could do, right? And without ceremony, without celebration, he would just go out onto the basketball court and slowly kill you, like erosion.

DG: That’s coming up next time, on Sports in America And we also want to hear from you. How about you drop us a line? You can write us at sportsInamerica@whyy.org. That’s sportsInamerica@whyy.org. Thanks, everybody. We’ll see you next time for more Sports in America.

This is Sports in America, I’m your host David Greene.

Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa.

Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our talent booker is Britt Kahn. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling.

Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports, with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeartRadio app, you know, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Host: David Greene
Executive Producers: Joan Isabella, Tom Grahsler
Senior Producer: Michael Olcott
Producer: Michaela Winberg
Associate Producer: Bibiana Correa
Talent Booker: Britt Kahn
Engineer: Mike Villers
Tile Art: Bea Walling
Sports in America is a production of WHYY, distributed by PRX, and part of the NPR podcast network.

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