It Was Our Dump

Nick Kupsey: Every stadium has its family stories, but mine was a little bit more personal as my father’s first job outta college was working at Veterans Stadium.

I’m Nick Kupsey. I’m head of editorial at Goldin Auctions, uh, author and storyteller who lives here in Philly. My father, Bill Kupsey, was conceived in poll during World War II, but that’s too long of a story to get into.

But he grew up in Bridesburg in Northeast Philly. So my father, after he graduated from Frankfurt High School, he enlisted in the Navy from 1959 to 1963. While in the Navy, he was a part of the construction battalion, which is called cbs. So these guys, these cbs, they’re like jacks of all trades, like the MacGyver type people.

So my father could build literally anything. He could rewire, he could do plumbing, all of it. Fortunately he, none of that passed down to me. But he was a very, very clever, very well read and well traveled man, very smart, loved Shakespeare, and he graduated from Spring Garden College, which is no longer there either.

So it’s another Philly relic gone. And I actually remember first learning about this, his first job. At the very first Phillies game at The Vet that I can remember attending. I was just seven years old and now he never elaborated, so I don’t know if he had to physically do this and actually like count each one, but he had to count all the steps at Veterans Stadium.

And it sounds like such a first job, almost like the kind of job they give to the new hire to haze them a bit. And the reason for counting steps is lost to time. And I cannot really recall why he did it. He never, I don’t even think he told me. I think he was too busy laughing at the fact that he had to count all these steps.

But I remember sitting in the stadium after he told me that and like physically trying to count and it was absolutely impossible. You know, people, much like ants, are marching up and down, it’s impossible to keep count. And especially at seven, I’m sure my mental capacity was only He-Man and transformers.

You know, I remember like seeing the stadium from afar for like the first time and just being marveled by it – it was massive. You know, it just rises like a castle over I 95. It was a little ridiculous, but we, I remember walking up and it was the most people I had ever seen in my entire life, and I just remember the ding of the turnstile just going ding.

Ding, ding, forming this like rhythm, this like for the first, my first time experience, but what I always remembered about it was just the difference between the facade and how it was on the inside. It was dark, dank. It had like this weird mixture of like beer, urine, and cigarettes. It felt more like a medieval castle and less like a Colosseum to modern sports.

And as we’re walking, all of a sudden, you know, after that maze, it had these ramps like you were going through levels of a castle. It was just, it felt like it was never ending. Throngs of people, some of them already drunk. Like you could hear people cackling and screaming from the bathroom, the, you know, the, the dungeon that they called a bathroom.

Let’s be honest. But what I do remember the most was the first time seeing the field. And I will never, ever forget that because it was just so verdant. It was just, it felt like it went for miles and it was just so green and so smooth, you know?

And later I would kind of get into, have a conversation with my Dad about itAnd he would say that’s the AstroTurf is the worst thing on the planet. He’s like, they had already replaced it, I think by that time, maybe twice. ’cause I know it was six total that they replaced it. And he said, that’s the cause of more injuries than you have any idea. Uh, but that was my first memory, you know, and I had my cold ice cream and my Dad and –

But he started to tell me completely unsolicited. Mind you, I didn’t ask. I’m seven. I was way too busy looking at everything. Like I loved Mike Schmidt, like I still do to this day. You know, he is my favorite baseball player. I was there to see Mike Schmidt. I didn’t care about anything else. I didn’t care about the construction of a stadium.

But he went into it anyway like most fathers do, and told me the architects, how much it cost, how many years It took all the delays and told me that it cost like $13 million. They had to, the voters went to the polls in 67, approved 13 million. Then they had to go back a couple years ’cause the delays and weather and all these other things, and approved an additional 25 million.

And then after years and years of labor strikes, weather, all sorts of delays. It didn’t open until 1971.

Anyway… the companies that he worked for and with did a lot of interesting work around the city. They did a lot of work for like University of Penn and a lot of the colleges. There was a lot of beautiful things.

Actually, the one thing his company did was the Dave & Busters on Delaware Avenue, and we went to it’s opening night!?

But the only thing that he ever talked about was Veterans Stadium.

And when I saw the turnstile in the Atwater Kent Collection, it just brought back a flood of memories.

Jamie Brunson: From WHYY, you’re listening to Philadelphia Revealed. I’m your host, Jamie Jay, Executive Director of First Person Arts, a nonprofit organization that believes everyone has a story to tell.

Across 10 episodes, you’re going to get a tour of the Atwater Kent collection, sometimes called Philadelphia’s Attic. It’s a collection that’s grown over decades, acquiring Philly’s material culture from individuals, families, institutions, sometimes literally from the trash. In every episode of this podcast you’ll learn about an object in the Atwater Kent collection and hear a story inspired by it from a First Person Arts storyteller. We think every Philadelphian will be able to see themselves in this collection and that learning about Philadelphia’s many histories can help us understand its present and future.

This is Episode Six. It Was Our Dump with storyteller Nick Kupsey.

Nick was born and raised in Philly, and like most native Philadelphians, he has an intimate and deep understanding of what it means to be a sports fan in the city of brotherly Love, the pain and glory, the joy and suffering, and the way all our teams weave themselves into the very fabric of the city.

Nick was inspired by a turns style in the Atwater Ken Collection that used to welcome fans and concert goers to Philly’s famous veteran stadium. What most locals lovingly referred to as The Vet. It was demolished in 2003.
Nick Kupsey: It’s a green and steel turnstile column with three arms on one side used at Veteran Stadium circa 1971 to 2003.

So, uh, this turnstile is typical of what you’d see in subway stations and other stadiums. It’s about, probably about three feet high. It’s got three prongs sticking out. Um, what I assume is on some sort of mechanism that turns it, uh, the base of its green, the top of its silver. Uh, it’s worn. I mean, it is, you can see the rust kind of coming up from the bottom and kind of eating away at the paint, but the steel is still really splendid.

It’s still kind of shiny, which is amazing considering how much and how many people have gone through this. I mean, I remember when he, like, I’m so small, he had to lift me over the turn style. And I remember he did. So he was laughing hysterically when he did it and kind of like whooshed me over, you know?

And I think that every memory he had in that building was a good one. And how rare is that in life? You are only going to Citizen Bank Park to see the Phillies or maybe an occasional concert, but everything, especially during the summer, was held at Veteran Stadium. So you had the Phillies and then you would have towards the end the Eagles.

But then in between you had concerts. It, it, it was just this focal point that we’re starting to lose now. Like nothing will ever feel like The Vet. It’ll never have that borderline hostility. I mean, it had a jail. How many stadiums in this country have a dedicated jail because their fans are so rowdy. None. And that’s a just a distinct Philadelphia concept.

No one else is gonna go there, you know, and that’s what I think that people aren’t able to articulate when they talk about it, is that, you know, this turnstile, there’s gonna be people that see this and go, oh my God. I remember going through this with my Dad. I remember going through this with my wife. I remember my taking my son. The nostalgia contained within that building, it’s made manifest by this. You know, I mean, you look at that turnstile and you know, you know, you put your hand on that guardrail next to it and pushed your way through and into a whole gateway, into a whole new world where you were with your people.

Jamie Brunson: Nick talks a lot about the connection between sports, memory and nostalgia, especially here in Philadelphia. These things are inextricably linked together. No one knows this better than Jim Salisbury. Jim was a beat writer for the Philadelphia Phillies for nearly 30 years for the Philadelphia Enquirer, NBC Sports, and then mlb.com.

He spent many of those seasons covering the Phillies from their former home at Veteran Stadium. Nick is a longtime reader of Jim’s and had a few questions for him.

Nick Kupsey: I would like to know what Jim’s thoughts were as a writer when he got there as a kid, obviously too, but what his thoughts were as a fully fledged adult writer when he got to Philly and was like, holy shit. Like, you know, was he, was he impressed? Was he shocked? Was he like, what is wrong with these people? Like, I would love to know what his feelings are about Veteran Stadium.

Jim Salisbury: When I walked in there for the first time, as a kid who grew up wanting to be a big city baseball writer, I felt like I hit the big time.

Jamie Brunson: Here’s Jim Salisbury. He grew up in Rhode Island and first visited Veteran Stadium on a road trip with his family.

Jim Salisbury: It was a magical moment for me. I grew up going to Fenway Park as a kid. Great place, tight, cramped, cozy. Walk into Veteran Stadium and see the vastness of it all, uh, was completely thrilling for me.

Jamie Brunson: Salisbury officially started covering the Phillies for the Philadelphia Inquire in 1997. He says it was a dream job.

Jim Salisbury: Coming over the Walt Whitman Bridge, or coming up 95 to see how big it was. It just grabbed you. It was such an easy place to work.

The world has changed so much after 9/11, going to stadiums has changed so much after 9/11.

The security rightfully so, is very intense. In 10 years going to The Vet, I don’t think anybody ever looked at my pass. I walked in the door, I waved to security. I took the elevator up to the press. Fox and I sat right behind home plate. Had a great view of the game, and it was an easy place to work. And it wasn’t so fancy where I couldn’t drop my peanut shells on the floor.

Like I said, I felt like I hit the big time.

Jamie Brunson: Jim says, the city started exploring the idea of building a new stadium in the 1950s. This is back when the Phillies played at Connie Mack Stadium in North Philly.
Jim Salisbury: There was a lot of debate and controversy about where it should be built, who would pay for it, um, who would run it.

And it went on for like two decades trying to find a place to build this stadium and. It came at a time it was built, you know, groundbreaking in ‘67, opened in ‘71, and it came in an era in American pro sports when municipalities were building massive multipurpose stadiums.

Jamie Brunson: Jim says there’s a difference between these behemoth stadiums he’s describing and a ballpark.
Ballparks are just for baseball. These stadiums were show places for all kinds of events.

Jim Salisbury: They were big. You could have huge attendance there. They usually had parking. They were sometimes if in the city limits, they were, they were a bit away from the downtown area.

So these stadiums popped up in St.Louis. They built one in Houston, uh, put a dome on it called the Astrodome. They built one in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh… Montreal had one. There were these cookie cutters. They all kind of had a similar look. They were all circular, oval. They all had kind of seating bowls that were on these. Big wheels. Uh, under the stadium there were these big rubber wheels that almost looked like the wheels you’d see on a jet airplane.

So they could actually move those stadiums, um, to construct a baseball diamond and move them out to construct the sidelines of a football field.

Jamie Brunson: It took a while for the city of Philadelphia to settle on a name for the stadium. Here’s Jim reading some of the suggestions from the book, “Veterans Stadium: Field of Memories” by Rich Westcott.

Jim Salisbury: Independent Stadium, Palladium, William Penn Stadium, Eisenhower Stadium and Apollo Stadium were some of the most popular suggestions. So was Philadelphia Stadium. Anti-war activists proposed names such as Peace Park, Love Park, Dream Park. And then a poll conducted by the Evening Bulletin, which attracted some 500 suggestions from 1,650 readers. All of the above names were supported as were The Pill, Blue Bird Park, Billy’s Pen, Philly’s Folly. Quaker Bowl, Raspberry Park, Keystone Stadium….

Jamie Brunson: Finally, to the chagrin of those anti-Vietnam activists, city Council voted on a name proposed by the American Legion: Veterans Stadium. And it passed.

Jim Salisbury: The idea was floated to sell the naming rights that was sort of before the times at that point. Now stadiums sell the naming rights all the time.

Uh, but, but in the end, uh, the name was chosen to honor those who had fought in wars for the United States of America. Uh, and it carried that name throughout its lifespan.
Jamie Brunson: He says The Vet received rave reviews when it first opened.

Jim Salisbury: There were, you know, newspaper articles out of New York that actually called Veteran Stadium, the Palace on Pattison.

I mean, that’s how beautiful Veteran Stadium was when it opened.

Jamie Brunson: Jim says he was often struck by the emotion Philadelphians had for the stadium. While some South Philly locals opposed The Vet in its early days for taking up valuable parking spaces, he says the city ended up falling in love with the stadium.

Jim Salisbury: People used to say it was a dump, but you know what? It was our dump! Veteran Stadium had a really distinct smell. I, I can still smell it, you know, its detractors will tell you it was the smell of cat urine. Sort of down in the bowels of the stadium, you’d mostly smell it. Uh, and it probably was, uh, it had a cat population because most stadiums do. To me, it created some of the charm of Veterans Stadium. And I think the fans never were afraid to get rowdy at Veterans Stadium. Uh, and that certainly helped the home team. I really had a lot of love for Veterans Stadium. Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Brunson: By the early 1990s, stadium trends had come full circle. Jim says that cities and fans alike desired more cozy, charming ballparks.

These cavernous, multipurpose stadiums like The Vet were quickly going out of fashion.

Jim Salisbury: They went through a lot of the same things that, um, city went through in building Veteran Stadium in terms of financing location, getting the shovels in the ground. It was a long. Sure, but they, they finally got Citizens Bank Park built, so they ended up with their own throwback ballpark, uh, that succeeded Veteran Stadium 30 seconds,

Archival Newsreel: Station, 30 seconds to implosion at Veteran Stadium. 30 seconds.
Jamie Brunson: says he watched the implosion of the stadium from spring training.

Jim Salisbury: I do remember watching it come down and being amazed at how fast it happened. Being amazed at how orderly it was. It was like boom, boom, boom, boom. Like dominoes came down in sections, six people to take one look, three, two, fire, fire, um, and being amazed at how quick it was. And then that plume of dust, uh, and then it was gone and people started, um. People started clapping, if I recall. Uh, and then, you know, driving up to it for opening day at the new place and just seeing, seeing all that rubble there, and I, one of my regrets is I wanted to pull over one day driving up to the new stadium, I wanted to pull over and run over to the construction site as they were getting rid of all the old materials from, from The Vet.

And I wanted to grab a piece of a chunk of concrete. But they had fences up around it and I never did it, and I kind of regret not doing that.
I don’t have a chunk of concrete, but I do have a lot of great memories of the place.

Archival Newsreel: When Veteran Stadium, Philadelphia’s Veteran Stadium was constructed, it was an engineering marvel back before the days of widespread use of computers.

They used slide rules to really put the stadium up and make sure it stood up. The 33 years it stood until falling today, leaving us with 33 years of great memories.

Nick Kupsey: We watched it in our living room. Like we didn’t go, my father couldn’t take it. I remember he said, I said, Dad, do you want, do you wanna go down? You know, ’cause I think like you, there was, I don’t know what the viewing was. I think you could like go, I don’t really recall. But he said, “No.” He goes, “…if I don’t have to go to” this is what he said, “If I don’t have to go to a funeral, I don’t want to.”

But I do remember watching that with him and just watching that I don’t wanna say life get taken out of, ’cause that would be a little extreme, but you could see a light go out in him. You know, and I think that when you watch the things that you loved or the things that you poured your heart into and you watch them get torn down, you really lose a piece of yourself.

And I think that there’s no way to really avoid that. I. And I, and I think that for all of us as we age and as we look back and then as we see seemingly like the laniers of time erasing everything, uh, that can hit certain people. And it hit my father.

Me, I sat there, watched, and was like, I’ve never seen a building imploded. So I had a very different- and I was wise and emotionally intelligent enough to shut up. But in my internally, I was like, that’s how that happens, you know? But to my Dad, it was, you know, taking me to that game, you know, holding my hand, getting me ice cream, me having a glove for no reason. But I, I think that it was emblematic of family and, and work.

It was just a real confluence of different things for him, you know?

Jamie Brunson: The Vet was torn down over 20 years ago, but it’s back in the news lately because of an investigation into that AstroTurf that Nick’s Dad hated so much the plastic chemical grass manufactured by the company. Monsanto has been linked to cases of brain cancer that has killed six former Phillies players.

The investigation is ongoing as of the recording of this podcast series. The Atwater Ken Collection contains the turnstile that inspired Nick as well as a piece of turf from Vet Stadium.

Nick Kupsey: What I’ve learned from traveling this country, performing writing and for work is that there is no city more nostalgic than Philadelphia.

I don’t know if it’s encoded in our DNA, but we look to the past to think that everything was better. And I think that we like seeing ourselves reflected in objects. So if it’s like, you know, a turnstile from the stadium, millions of people walk through that. If you think about it and you think about the condition of it, it’s actually in rather good condition for how many people abused it.

But I think we have this, just this need in this city to connect with our roots so much that yeah, sometimes it’s a little overboard. I wish our fans were a little bit better sometimes. but also it’s kind of endearing, you know? Like we don’t let the past die, you know, some of it should, but a lot of it, it’s nice.

Like I look at this turnstile and I think to myself, like, I remember that thud going through like a drum, and I think about going through it, you know, after my father picked me up, then the next year I could walk through it, you know. And then I remember a couple years later I was going to Philly games with my friends without my Dad.

You know, I was a teenager. And I think about that and I think about all of this, and I, and everybody in this city can connect in some way or shape or form if they’re above a certain age to this. Like they can connect to this stadium. You know, the thing is we can’t hold these stadiums forever. We cannot hold onto them.

They get built up, torn down again. Really the best we can do is to understand that everything in our lives is fleeting. Our relationships, your team’s championships, the memories of eating ice cream out of the helmet while your Dad bores you to death with stories about his new job. It’s hard to avoid the sadness of aging and loss.

Every single one of us are gonna fall victim to it, but I think we can do our best to try to embrace the changes that come and be appreciative of all that we’re given.

Jamie Brunson:The Philadelphia Revealed podcast is a production of WHYY in partnership with Rowhome Productions and First Person Arts. Our executive producers are Tom Grahsler, Alex Lewis, John Myers, and me, Jamie J. Brunson.

This episode of Philadelphia Revealed was written and produced by Alex Lewis. Our lead producer is Jen Kinney. Final mixing and mastering by John Myers and Justin Berger. Our engineers are Al Banks, Diana Martinez, and Charlie Kier. Special thanks to the Atwater Kent Collection at Drexel University curatorial team, Page Talbott, Stacey Swigart, Melissa Clemmer, and Michael Shepherd. Special thanks also to Dr. Neil Bardhan, Jean Burke-Spraker, and Michaela Prell at First Person Arts.

Thank you to Michaela Winberg, Hannah Cornish, and Savannah Collins. Our theme music is by Paul Giess and Matt Jernigan. Thanks to Ms. Cramer and the Frankford High School drumline. Additional music by Paul Geis and Blue Dot Sessions. Philadelphia Revealed is a project of Drexel University in collaboration with WHYY and First Person Arts.

The Philadelphia Revealed podcast and additional programming has been supported by the Pew Center for Arts and Heritage. I’m Jamie J. Thanks for listening.

Philadelphia Revealed is part of the NPR Podcast Network.